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jpclute
06-24-2012, 10:48 AM
Greetings. Posted this the other day in another topic that may not be getting much activity so I thought I'd go to the pontils only forum. I opened up an 1850's privy the other day and found one I have never dug before. At this time I will assume it is British and it certainly appears to be a late throw into the privy. It has the apperance of the Essence of Peppermint / Kings patent square flared lip bottles, clear metal and a glass tipped pontil. embossing is "Hiltons/Imperial/Essence of/Peppermint" Any info you have would be appreciated. Maybe it is common and I need to get out to more shows!

Thanks, Roy

epackage
06-24-2012, 12:01 PM
Makes me wonder if it's not from G.W. Hilton from Lowell Mass., of Dr. Hilton's Specifics fame...

jpclute
06-25-2012, 03:36 AM
Thanks, epackage. Any idea if he was around prior to 1850?

CazDigger
06-25-2012, 03:58 PM
Hey Roy, sounds like a cool bottle. (know anyone named Hilton that might want it...?) I would love to see a photo. It MAY be American, there were quite a few American knock-offs of British bottles and some of the early US glasshouses used flint glass with solid pontils (Mt Vernon for one). I couldn't find any info online or in my resources. I'll keep looking.
Mark

AntiqueMeds
06-25-2012, 04:38 PM
sounds british. Definately not common.

jpclute
06-26-2012, 04:46 AM
I am thinking evidence would lead to it being English. In that same layer was a cone ink, pontiled,a different aqua color than you normally see, that when it first came out I just put it on the top of the hole. When I went to clean it you could see the pontil was not the typical ring or tubular type like you find and looks lke a glass tipped. Very thick & heavy with a drawn out, refired looking lip. Not like any American cone I have dug. Will try to get a picture of both in the forum.
Mark, nice to hear from you & I'm glad you did ok at Saratoga. I agree you can't always believe that all the clear glass vials and other meds coming out of the early 1800's thru 1830's - 1840 type pits are always english. Would be great to find an old add and find out it is American. Lke I said before, I never have dug a piece of one, and only a few times I've found shards of the Kings patent peppermint bottles.
Also in the pit were three I.P. Townsends sarsaparilla (olive green, deep blue-green & light blue-green) and two damaged ones. Was splitting with the owner & he got the light blue -green plus some D. Lake stonewares and a few plain pontil meds. I got the other two, the above stuff and a few others.

jpclute
07-02-2012, 05:58 PM
Having issues posting pictures. Had four, here is one of the front of the bottle with the Hiltons embossing. The ink I thought was English was probably premature on my part and I had not really looked at it that good, plus some good information from another collector. It is actually free blown, very thick, next to the pontil about an inch apart are two recessed dots. Hmmm. Will have to go thru the Ink book at the Bottle museum when I can get up there, do not have a copy.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11907/A1F6B74B728B446AB0166063F197694A.jpg

AntiqueMeds
07-02-2012, 06:40 PM
the forum limits one photo upload per post.

deepbluedigger
07-03-2012, 02:49 PM
That's a great looking little bottle Roy: I've only just seen this thread, and your post on the other thread.

I don't think I've got any record of that type yet. I'll have to do some searching for info. Must be rare, or at least very scarce. Please don't get rid of it without giving me a look-in!

Jerry

deepbluedigger
07-03-2012, 03:25 PM
That one really does look English, but CazDigger is right about flint US bottles with English style pontils. It's got to be close to 100% certain that there are US made flint pontils out there that look British. Somewhere (can't remember where right now) there's even a record of Turlingtons bottles being manufactured in the US before 1800.

Problem is how to identify the US made bottles? The pic attached shows three really nice US bottles I have. The two flint glass bottles (Whitwells Patent Snuff, and Byams Opodeldoc) both look British in every way with British style solid pontils and lips, and may have been made in the UK. I think the Whitwells was probably UK made, and the Byams US made, but there's no solid evidence for that right now, just a gut feeling.

It would be great if someone could do some chemical analyses on sherds from US and British flint glass factories (or known US vs British flint glass tableware, etc) and compare it with a range of flint glass bottles for known US medicines. There's a whole PhD-worth of work there for someone.

https://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/deepbluedigger/3_American_medicines.jpg

BTW, these three are all available as swaps / part-ex for pontilled British meds.

jpclute
07-03-2012, 10:28 PM
Deepblue, thanks for responding. The bottle for now isn't going anywhere, just to many unanswered questions. Like everyone else, I enjoy finding something weird and different, and I'd like to make time to do some of my own research. Iv'e always said if there's one embossed bottle out there, there has got to be another. Somewhere there has to be something on the bottle.
AntiqueMeds, thanks for the feedback on the photos. I had my wife working on the pictures and had initially told her more than one photo could be posted.

Roy

deepbluedigger
07-04-2012, 04:36 PM
No problem Roy. Nice find, and I'd be hanging onto it if I'd found it, too. I'd be grateful if you'd just keep me in mind if and when you do ever decide to part.

Happy digging!

Jerry

CazDigger
07-05-2012, 12:27 AM
Cool bottle Roy,I'm leaning towards British. I'd love to see the ink too.

jpclute
07-16-2012, 03:52 PM
This is the ink When I first looked at it i thought might be English. Can't really explain why I thought that. very thick, appears free blown, pontil looks like a crude blowpipe, originally thought it was glass tipped but I hadn't even cleaned it up.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11907/1FDCF2E770A944538C6C89049A6E79E1.jpg

jpclute
07-16-2012, 03:53 PM
This is the base of the ink. can not really see the pontil to well.

jpclute
07-16-2012, 04:01 PM
OOPS. picture did not go on the ink bottle. will try one more time.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11907/457C24A258EE427B94FD9CE73370531D.jpg

CazDigger
07-17-2012, 10:16 AM
Probably one of the earliest cone inks out there! Super crude, I really like it. I bet all those sloppy, wet privies are dry now!