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View Full Version : Has old traits, but not sure if really old? Thanks!



screlichunter
12-12-2012, 10:07 AM
Great web-site!

I was given bottle that is somewhat challenging. Need some expert advice.

It has the following qualities:

Bluish-Teal more blue in color

There are no mode seams that are clearly visible.

The top is straight no tool marks, but is slightly out of round at the mouth.

There is a pontil mark on the bottom.

I believe the top was applied at the shoulder, but the design of the bottle with the ridges on the side is hard to determine.

There are small bubbles throughout the entire body, but they are hard to see with the ridges on the body.

The bottle was found in an attic box wrapped up.

The bottle hard some sticky dust outside that was easily cleaned with soap & water with a light plastic scouring pad.

The inside had some residue that I cleaned with hot water and rice.

There are no usage flaws, just some light imperfections from the blowing.

I was thinking it was some type of bitters or gin bottle if it were old, but maybe one from Pier One or Hobby Lobby.

Just wanted an expert opinion on if it was old, then:

How Old?
What type?
Maybe manufacturer?

Thanks so very much!
Jeff

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/18339/161A646D49CE43049DB549EE98DBD14B.jpg

AntiqueMeds
12-12-2012, 10:19 AM
that is an odd one.

It looks mold blown. The lip looks like it might be fire polished (are there any circulat tooling marks?).
With the color , texture, and non-utilitarian lip, I'm thinking its a decorative/art glass item. Doesnt seem particulary recent.

screlichunter
12-12-2012, 10:26 AM
Thanks for the reply!

There are no tooling marks at all, very smooth. The inside of the lip is concave as shown in the image. Also the measurement across the top or diameter of the lip is not equal, by about 1/16" of an inch.

Thanks again!

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/18339/DEAADB782684497FA3ECEE53AEB076AF.jpg

Steve/sewell
12-12-2012, 10:35 AM
Tough one to figure out with out holding it in person. Traits in its favor of being old 1840 to 1860 are..... The slightly flanged lip suggesting utilitarian use,rough hastily made pontil mark suggesting production of more then just one of these. Traits not in favor of it being old but possibly a fantasy bottle from say the Clevenger Brothers are the color,the strange barrel shape and the quite prevalent cold mold ripple through out the glass. I guess it comes down to base wear on the very perimeter of the bottom. Does the bottle look like it has been sitting for quite a while or does the bottom look too pristine like it was made yesterday. Take the bottle outside with the sun to your back and take some sharp pictures especially of the base and neck. The sun brings out the best in glass. My opinion is that it is a 50 50 call right now but I will say I have never seen this form before. Hope to see additional pictures

screlichunter
12-12-2012, 10:44 AM
Thanks!

I will certainly post some more images with the suggestions.

I do appreciate all the help!
Jeff

screlichunter
12-12-2012, 09:26 PM
I have some more information:

Unfortunately the sun did not want cooperate today. But I was able to capture some closer images after I polished it up a bit with a t-shirt. Sorry for the large photos and the non artist drawings.

I found three mold seams which splits the bottle up in thirds all the way up to just below the top. the seams going up the side are actually hidden by the mottled lines in the texture. Also the inside of the bottle holds the inverted texture of the outside of the sides. I was able to see abrasion on the bottom, but only the high points of the bottom rim or base.

I will send some more images when the sun finally comes out.

Thanks again for all of the help!
Jeff


https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/18339/CA98FFD052164226AAA40125DBABCBFB.jpg

AntiqueMeds
12-12-2012, 10:28 PM
THe three sectioned mold, the vertical ridging which makes labeling difficult, and a lip style which doesnt seem practical to seal all make me think late 19th to early 20th century decorative/art glass bottle.
No real evidence, just my impression. Could be totally wrong.

tigue710
12-12-2012, 10:36 PM
no idea what to think of that, all the pieces do not add up any which way... My guess is 1930's Clevenger Brothers...

AntiqueMeds
12-12-2012, 10:40 PM
possible , I have no experience with early clevenger items.
I remember some of thier surplus molds auctioned off were for odd artsy items.

Steve/sewell
12-12-2012, 10:41 PM
Thanks for posting the additional pictures Jeff,great presentation.It goes a long way in being so precise as many people lazily and hastily ask for help with minimum efforts on their parts. I am sold, the bottle seems much more original as the top and the base suggest to me the reasons why. The bottle was made for use as without the small flare any liquid would run back down the outside of the neck,bottles 101.The base wear looks quite genuine so I believe it is old and original to its period 1840 to 1860. Now we just have to figure out what was in the bottle. It might be a scent bottle from France,or a toiletry bottle from England. The base wear is key as it is distributed on the high points on the base where you would expect it to be with fine abrasions indicative of a long induced polishing versus an applied fake more recent one as those tend to have more deep scratches embedded in the wear.I am sure others will help you here also Jeff. Do you have more bottles or is this the beginning of a collecting career?[;)]

AntiqueMeds
12-12-2012, 10:44 PM
so we have narrowed it down to a 100 year span 1840-1940. Hope that helps[:D]

Steve/sewell
12-12-2012, 10:55 PM
The thoughts added by the two Matt's also makes sense as the Clevengers did use this color at times. The base is looking more original to me though as Clevenger pontil marks were one of their Achilles heal as they were to perfect and round the majority of the time.. Unfortunately I have seen a ton of the Clevenger work as I am just 10 miles from ground zero where their factory was located. I respect them for continuing a dying entity ( early glass manufacture ). I just wish most of their work would have concentrated more on original to their factory then copying exact molds and items from the mid to late 1800s.When your greatest achievement ( the Clevenger Booz bottle ) is your bread and butter this is how the collecting world will remember you as. A duplicator of originals which can fool you out of large sums of money and then their work is no longer harmless.

Steve/sewell
12-12-2012, 10:57 PM
ORIGINAL: AntiqueMeds

so we have narrowed it down to a 100 year span 1840-1940. Hope that helps[:D]



[8D][:D]

JOETHECROW
12-12-2012, 11:01 PM
Really cool color on that one....Never seen one quite like it, but I'm far from an expert...Thanks for posting it here. and welcome to the ABN forum...

screlichunter
12-12-2012, 11:26 PM
Thanks everyone for all the input! That gives me some avenues. I know that it is hard to really tell without really holding the item. So thank again for your input on my photos.

I have a few other bottles in my collection:

A nice open pontiled and paper labeled essence of peppermint medicine bottle from Mass.

A few blob tops.

1 - pint SC Dispensary Monogram

2 - 1/2 pint SC Dispensary Monograms

1 - SC Dispensary Rum

1 - SC Dispensary Union Flask w/ Tree

1 - 1/2 SC Dispensary JoJo Flask w/ tree

A number of other bottles and light bulbs dug from an late 1800's dump site, including the first type Hoppes No. 9. It's not that rare but cool because I also collect old gun cleaning equipment.

It is pretty neat collecting these old bottles, so many cool designs.

Thanks again!
Jeff

JOETHECROW
12-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Hey,...Jeff, if you're so inclined, could you post up a pic of the hoppe's? I'd like to see one. Thanks...

screlichunter
12-13-2012, 06:41 PM
Here's the Hoppe's No. 9

I found this in that late 1800's dump.

Pretty cool!

Thanks! Jeff

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/18339/CE5C438F928D4564B478483DC973648E.jpg

JOETHECROW
12-13-2012, 07:57 PM
Thanks Jeff,...that's pretty cool.

druggistnut
12-18-2012, 05:42 AM
I think it's foreign, maybe Italian.
Bill