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Asterx
01-17-2013, 07:31 PM
Here's a couple pontiled cylinders I purchased from ebay recently. They look to be sand/sticky ball pontiled to me. Also the form of the whiskey cylinder is different. I don't see black glass in this shape really. Any ideas are very welcome as I am not an expert in black glass. Thanks!

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11406/C602148658FE4F76B775B2524F069DF5.jpg

Asterx
01-17-2013, 07:32 PM
Here is the whole bottle that the above base is from...

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11406/8688453518684A4FBA34F996A44D6E77.jpg

Asterx
01-17-2013, 07:33 PM
Here's a rum type bottle...

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11406/5550224858F54C108E926CD2FC157878.jpg

Asterx
01-17-2013, 07:34 PM
And its base. rough and picky to the touch starting about 1/3rd of the way in. Thanks for looking!

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11406/D279E8004A0C4A109C84E1F103A1DD83.jpg

RED Matthews
01-17-2013, 09:35 PM
asterisk80. That firs pioture is not an empontilled mark because there are three vent hole cones and it looks like something is embossed. I noted that the full bottle picture under it is no doubt tells me that it could be early machine made. The next bottle is obviously carrying a tooled finish and should have horizontal lines of the tool on the tapered finish surfaces. I say this because the glass neck under the finish looks compressed. The base of that bottle looks like it could have been empontilled, but it has a center vent dot, so that makes me doubt it was empontilled because the punty rod would leave that dot stay there.
That is about all there is I can see. Is there any embossing on the body of the bottles?

Also, I doubt if they are actually black glass as we call some really dark green earlier glass. RED Matthews

RED Matthews
01-17-2013, 09:48 PM
Hi again, I guess your posts on these bottles must have been posted twice. The earlier one had a finish picture that wasn't shown the first time. It has an interesting mark on the top taper of the finish. I can't tell what caused it but it must have been touched by a carriers tool or some type of tool hit it or it tipped over on its way to annealing. I really like the marks on glass because until they are really studied - they are bottlemysteries. RED Matthews

Asterx
01-17-2013, 09:53 PM
Hi Red, thanks for you reply. The pictures I took really aren't the best but the finish on both certainly look applied to me. Here's a picture of the first's finish.

I guess I'm a little confused by what you mention about the embossed dots. Are you saying it cannot be pontiled if there is embossing within the center of the base? Wouldn't some punty rods with whatever medium they are using to empontil (glass, sand etc.) just make contact with the outer areas of the base as is shown with the circular scar and leave the inside smooth or embossed? Thanks

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11406/56BB1B61518F4CEF88D37E5F3543A9E5.jpg

antlerman23
01-17-2013, 09:58 PM
i would consider both of those bottles pontilled. and super cool too!

Asterx
01-17-2013, 09:59 PM
I forgot to mention that aside from the 3 dots and the 1 dot on the second there is no embossing.

luckiest
01-17-2013, 11:37 PM
I like that first one in particular I don't know too much, but I would guess it's from the 1860s.

tigue710
01-17-2013, 11:40 PM
They are both most certainly pontiled, the first being a really nice New England whiskey cylinder... Looks like a CT piece to me but that is speculation... great bottle

Asterx
01-18-2013, 01:10 AM
Thank you Matt, I appreciate you chiming in on this one as I know your fondness for cylinders. Something about it made me think it may be american as opposed to english. I suppose it would be the form of the bottle for one, since it seems to be a fairly classic american shape, being thinner in proportion to english whiskeys/rums. The look of the tapered double lip also gives me that "US" feel. I'd be curious what about it rings a Connecticut bell with you. Being a Connecticuter myself, it would be great to think of it as having its roots here. It was purchased originally by the collector in CT but that is far from telling of course.

For a such a large scar and with certain characteristics, would you also think sand/sticky ball pontiled on both?

Again, thanks everyone for your input!

deepbluedigger
01-18-2013, 10:36 AM
The three dots across the base of the first one is identical to the makers mark of the Candlish glassworks in the north of England (http://finbotclub.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/candlish-bottle-works-east-durham-uk.html). Everything else about the bottle looks as though it could be British, too.

Asterx
01-18-2013, 05:44 PM
Interesting, Thanks Jerry. I checked out the link but didn't see any bottle pics. Neat history though. Do you happen to have or know where a picture of this maker's mark is?

The lip is different to me than most english black glass I have seen, although I am far from being knowledgeable on this topic. The slant and well defined edges of the collar remind me of american glass as opposed to the second bottle that looks distinctly british (to me)... this may just be a coincidence or my memory not serving. [;)]

Fantastic website by the way (diggersdiary.co.uk). I've visited it several times in the past but didn't know who to attribute it to!

tigue710
01-18-2013, 11:48 PM
ORIGINAL: deepbluedigger

The three dots across the base of the first one is identical to the makers mark of the Candlish glassworks in the north of England (http://finbotclub.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/candlish-bottle-works-east-durham-uk.html). Everything else about the bottle looks as though it could be British, too.



Jerry, I'd really like to see some examples of bottles from this works if you could direct me to the right place or post some.

tigue710
01-19-2013, 12:03 AM
One of the biggest differences I've found with American cylinders compared to English examples it the flat ring around the base. Now this isnt always true, but American made cylinders and master inks blown in three piece molds will have a flat circular base with a slight kick up or concave center. The English cylinders immediately slope inward to a point, like a cone or funnel with no hole in the bottom. There is an easy comparison in the pictures you have posted of the two bases above showing the difference.

The lip is also a give away for me, but a I can not explain it well, its just something you tend to pick up after a while.

The cylinder I believe to be a CT piece is what is generally refereed to as a New England cylinder, but I think they were likely made in New York and other eastern glass houses. Its well known that New England, and Stoddard especially produces tons of them. What makes me think its a CT piece is the three mold vents, which are very similar to the mold vents on the base of one of the marked Willington cylinders.

This is of course a different mold, and probably 10 - 20 years later, but the use of the mold vents could indicate the mold was made and used in the same place as its not a common method of venting.

Of course all any of this means is that it is possible it was made in CT... not definitive...

The first bottle I would call a sand pontil, the second a sticky ball... There are differences here in the process, but as of yet they are ill defined and little is known besides conjecture as to how they were produced...



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/8276/580E41400786425FBEB36ED403C1C859.jpg

Asterx
01-19-2013, 01:06 AM
Excellent info and comparisons Matt. I thank you. I had never made that connection with the ring around the edge of the base, thats a nice observation.

Nice bottle and picture too. I love the base embossed cylinders, the Willingtons and Ellenvilles. Great stuff.

Asterx
01-19-2013, 01:41 AM
The first bottle I would call a sand pontil, the second a sticky ball... There are differences here in the process, but as of yet they are ill defined and little is known besides conjecture as to how they were produced...

Thats interesting about the sand vs. sticky ball pontils. My only knowledge of these (apparently) two different types is from the SHA website in which it is explained that the two types are rather two different terms for the same process. But as is expected and you explained, there is little known of the details.

How would you differentiate the differences in appearance between the two, and what are the differences in process that you know of?

Thanks

tigue710
01-19-2013, 07:41 PM
The biggest difference I've been able to discern is that a Sticky ball pontil has a smeared, or smudged look, like it was pressed flat, but still with roughness through out or in a ring around the exterior of the mark while a sand pontil has little rough chips of broken glass, that do no seem smoothed over or smudged at all. More often then not a sand pontil will have just a ring of rough shards rather then the whole area with-in the ring having rough spots and shards... here it gets tricky because sometimes the sand pontil covers the whole area with rough shards with-in the outer ring of the mark, or the center will look slightly smothered. This seems to indicate three or four separate although very similar ways of empontiling the bottle, or possible just different techniques created by different hands?

I'm possibly looking to far into it, but the difference warrants exploration to me

Asterx
01-19-2013, 10:30 PM
a Sticky ball pontil has a smeared, or smudged look, like it was pressed flat, but still with roughness through out or in a ring around the exterior of the mark

Your description of the sticky ball makes be think all the kick-up black glass ales that have an interesting base, sometimes with a bluish case in areas (SHA site attributes this to using a different rod than it was blown with). Smooth in the center around the kickup and with a very fine rough to the touch ring. I know there are differing opinions on the pontils on these. Here is a picture I found searching ABN compliments of Staunton Dan
https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/upfiles/3821/F54CDCF7DB894BD3B87564F831507C6E.jpg

tigue710
01-20-2013, 12:53 AM
I believe the bluish tint is from heat... it's not from a different color glass on the punty... Some of the early annealing ovens had bricks with little holes the bottles were set on, and the heat came up through the hole... much like burnt black glass looking like a shell... dont get me started though, I've been arguing about that one for years...

Asterx
01-20-2013, 01:46 AM
ORIGINAL: tigue710

I believe the bluish tint is from heat... it's not from a different color glass on the punty... Some of the early annealing ovens had bricks with little holes the bottles were set on, and the heat came up through the hole... much like burnt black glass looking like a shell... dont get me started though, I've been arguing about that one for years...


Lol, sounds like a touchy subject. A good one though, as its a unique look those ales have on the base. Makes you wonder. Some people call it a refired pontil (due to the characteristic smoothness in the center of the base) but I would see no reason to spend time/money on refiring an area that isn't touched by the consumer. Often though, there is a pricky, rough edge around the smooth center about half way in that makes me question, pontil or no pontil. As you say, the smoothness may come from the extra heating of the bases upon the bricks (neat ideas). Where would this pricky edge come from though? (Sorry sorry, I don't mean to start fires here!) [:D]

tigue710
01-20-2013, 02:09 AM
I highly doubt and refute as tom foolery the re-fired pontil! I do not think the smoothness is from the heat in the annealing process, just the blue tint. The heat wouldn't be enough to melt the glass, but enough to cause it to burn a bit, like a hotdog on the rollers at the gas station... With the British bottles with a cone like indent on the base, like the ale bottles your talking about, I think the smoothness and roughness are both from the empontiling tool, or possibly the kick up tool made the smooth area while the roughness is just the pontil. It would make sense if they used one tool to do both jobs at the same time, perhaps a cone shape end, witch was rolled in glass shards on the edges? When it was pushed into the base it would form the kick up while the edges would bond and create a pontil... Idk... The blue tint to the glass I believe is from heat, but its also generally believed its caused by certain minerals in the glass. No one has been able to explain why it only happens in the base for the most part if that's the reason...

Maybe I'll take some pictures tmr...

tigue710
01-20-2013, 02:10 AM
oop's

Asterx
01-20-2013, 02:17 AM
Thank you Matt, great info....

"like hot dogs on the rollers at the gas station" That made me chuckle...

deepbluedigger
01-20-2013, 05:47 AM
THhanks for the comments about the website Jordan. It really needs an overhaul (hasn't been touched for about 4 years) but there are too many things to do with higher priority these days. The pontils page in particular is in line for a complete overhaul.

I don't have any cylinders with the Candlish mark, as I don't collect that type of bottle. All I've got is the base of a solid pontil medicine or utility, where the mark is completely underneath the glass of the pontil, and only visible from the inside! I'll try to get photos. I've got family who live in that part of the world, and there's a river site there where bottles turn up from time to time, including the base I've kept, and black cylinder bases. I've been told about the Candlish connection by Newcastle / Durham area collectors. I'll chase it up to get more detail from them. I agree (especially after seeing the photos of the Willington base) that it could be Candlish's chosen pattern of base vents, rather than a conventional makers mark.

Re looking more American than British: with the second of the two bottles, definitely. That degree of slope is much more US than British. The first bottle though is very similar to types that turn up here.

tigue710
01-20-2013, 01:33 PM
ORIGINAL: deepbluedigger

THhanks for the comments about the website Jordan. It really needs an overhaul (hasn't been touched for about 4 years) but there are too many things to do with higher priority these days. The pontils page in particular is in line for a complete overhaul.

I don't have any cylinders with the Candlish mark, as I don't collect that type of bottle. All I've got is the base of a solid pontil medicine or utility, where the mark is completely underneath the glass of the pontil, and only visible from the inside! I'll try to get photos. I've got family who live in that part of the world, and there's a river site there where bottles turn up from time to time, including the base I've kept, and black cylinder bases. I've been told about the Candlish connection by Newcastle / Durham area collectors. I'll chase it up to get more detail from them. I agree (especially after seeing the photos of the Willington base) that it could be Candlish's chosen pattern of base vents, rather than a conventional makers mark.

Re looking more American than British: with the second of the two bottles, definitely. That degree of slope is much more US than British. The first bottle though is very similar to types that turn up here.


Jerry I'd have to agree that the second cylinder does not look like the typical British cylinders, the base is quite different also. I see the American feel in it... Because of the mass importation of black glass here from Britain most of it is chalked of as British with very little to define what could possibly be made here excepting for unique shapes that are absolutely American.

The first cylinder is a very typical for New England glass, although the shape did originate with Rickett's patent. I'd really like to discuss this further, is there anyone over there you know who collects cylinders who you could put me in touch with?

Here is a picture of three Stoddard New Hampshire cylinders, borrowed respectfully from Jeff and Holly Nordsey...



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/8276/A8962F3C2574451E8B652F116FEFE9AB.jpg

tigue710
01-20-2013, 01:38 PM
here is a nice American cylinder I believe to be New England, but could be mid Atlantic, New York, Pennsylvania also. It has an Iron Pontil

I dug this last week



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/8276/76366FF4F226485BBF0B7B6F3E5ACF27.jpg

Asterx
01-20-2013, 11:00 PM
Beautiful cylinders and pictures, thanks for sharing. And nice dig Matt, iron pontiled too, congrats!


Because of the mass importation of black glass here from Britain most of it is chalked of as British with very little to define what could possibly be made here excepting for unique shapes that are absolutely American.
And I was thinking it had a british look to it. The base is different, I see that. Its not a cone shape kick up like most I see but has a more uniform deep cup type base almost... Is this what you both see as more likely American or is it the lip too?

Asterx
01-20-2013, 11:09 PM
with the second of the two bottles, definitely. That degree of slope is much more US than British
Jerry is the "slope" in reference to the base or lip on the second bottle?

tigue710
01-21-2013, 01:10 AM
ORIGINAL: asterisk80

Beautiful cylinders and pictures, thanks for sharing. And nice dig Matt, iron pontiled too, congrats!


Because of the mass importation of black glass here from Britain most of it is chalked of as British with very little to define what could possibly be made here excepting for unique shapes that are absolutely American.
And I was thinking it had a british look to it. The base is different, I see that. Its not a cone shape kick up like most I see but has a more uniform deep cup type base almost... Is this what you both see as more likely American or is it the lip too?



I see some differences that I could possibly say remind me of American glass, but I would of probably chalked it off as British... The base is not the typical cone shape like you also noticed, it could be American, Idk... There are a few forms I could confidently call American and its not one of them... but its not really my area either. I think Jerry might have a better idea then I do with that one. I'm into the strait sided New England and glass works whiskey cylinders, I've been compiling information on them for a long time now... Outside of those I haven't put a lot of research into other cylinder types.

didnt get a chance to take pics today, busy busy!

deepbluedigger
01-21-2013, 04:48 AM
ORIGINAL: asterisk80


with the second of the two bottles, definitely. That degree of slope is much more US than British
Jerry is the "slope" in reference to the base or lip on the second bottle?



I should have been clearer about that: I meant the lip.

cowseatmaize
01-21-2013, 07:21 AM
I think that sand pontil is kind of a misnomer.
Iron and glass have similar melting points (about 2800°F) so I can't see heating a rod to the point of getting sand (about 3100°F) to attach it. They never used iron pots to make glass for a reason. Maybe with some glass on the rod and the bottle heated hot enough it would hold but there is still a glass involved.
Spare the rod and spoil the child.

RED Matthews
01-21-2013, 02:19 PM
Awhile ago I made some comments about vent holes and empontilling. I have spent a few hourw looking back in my notew, picturwe. and books. I have started a blog to try and tie as much together as I can - and I could be wrong because I haven't had a lot of these cylinder bottles to study. I keep looking for printed coverage in Early Glass Books, but the whole story wasn't told by all the writers. I know that punty rod ends were made for contacts with the glass, I know they were heated and dipped in graphite past and stick materials to pick up glass dust and particles, as ll as sand and/or cast iron dust from the mold iron machining. I am sure a lot of bottle makers had preferences regarding what they used. One has to realize that the weight of the glass bottle had a lot to do with what they had to use and how much area it took to hold the product. These factors were considered from pufs to large demijohns.
At one time I collected old guns, and admired the strength of a man trying to hold an aim with some of them. It is hard for me to realize the strength a man had to have to hold a small blowpipe up with a thirty pound glass load on the end of it and still have the strength to blow it and form the parison and put in the closing mold and still blow the parison out to the mold form. I realize that some of the big ones were done with a mouth full of alcohol before the blow, because it helped obtain the volume of air when it expanded. I have an eight or nine gallon demijohn and it took a hell of a guy to blow it.
It still is a great hobby to study the marks and evidences of how it was made. RED Matthews

RED Matthews
01-21-2013, 02:29 PM
Well I made some typo's and couldn't edit them out. Sorry about that. I didn't have the time to read it first. OH well, I am not the best typist either. RED Matthews

Asterx
01-22-2013, 10:58 PM
I know that punty rod ends were made for contacts with the glass, I know they were heated and dipped in graphite past and stick materials to pick up glass dust and particles, as ll as sand and/or cast iron dust from the mold iron machining. I am sure a lot of bottle makers had preferences regarding what they used.

I am reading from this that for mediums like sand and iron dust the punty rod end would first collect glass that is somewhat plastic in order for the material (sand, iron bits etc.) to bind to the glass on the rod end? The chosen medium would allow an easier detachment from the bottle once attached to the base?

Your info regarding the alcohol is interesting too. Thank you for the post Red.

deepbluedigger
02-06-2013, 04:44 PM
Here's a pic of the pontilled med/utility base I mentioned, with what I've been told is the Candlish makers mark: difficult to photograph, but the three dots can be seen sandwiched under the glass of a solid pontil scar. The bottle was oval, about 2" x 3".



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/B94038FE7A9941EF8CE0370EE6FC6F46.jpg

deepbluedigger
02-06-2013, 04:45 PM
Another view:



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5200/3F54E803455D49899D42208F6FBBAC34.jpg

earlyglasscollector
02-14-2013, 07:43 AM
Hi Jerry, et al,
Although you are right Jerry re the three base dots being a Candlish bottle works sign, I do get the feeling that both the cylinder shown earlier, AND your medicine fragment are not "embossed" as such just for identification but more as part of the working procedure. The cylinder had a central pimple (to me) and two embossed dots, rather than three equidistant dots that is on the standard Candlish bottles. Your medicine seems actually to have the same effect...one central plus two more?
i know it's all a bit subtle, but I'll try to find a Candlish base to show you what I mean.
back soon hopefully..

earlyglass

deepbluedigger
02-17-2013, 04:38 AM
Hi Mark,

I've seen early smooth base bottles in various shapes with the same mark, mostly dug in the NE of England. But never kept any photographs (none of the ones I've seen has had embossed wording).

Would be interested to see pics of the one you mention, if you have any.

RED Matthews
03-13-2015, 11:33 AM
Well I have at least two dozen black glass bottles and a lot of pictures of pontil marks in my computer. There were so many different things done in the development of hand bhlown glass bottle making - that it blows my mind on how to cover the things seen. It is like the things that have shown up in the concept of turning the hot glass in the mold to reduce the mold seams. The factors of twist marks under the finish and in the neck glass to the turn and lift marks on the straight side all - made in the action. As well ass the embossed bottles that were turned in the mold with embosing on the bottomsl, where they thought lifting would release the lettering - [It doesn't always!!!] It is still a fun hobby to study the old glass examples. RED M.

RED Matthews
03-14-2015, 03:21 PM
Well I just read through all of this thread. I also have read a lot of books on the subject.I know one of my books indicated that they used a box of different fine materials in several divided box sections. One for sand, one for fine chips and dust of fractured glass, one with graphite, and I realize that a lot of things were not recorded or completely explained. I must have a couple hundred p9ctures of different pontil surfaces, and have tried to illustrate makers marks and mold venting description. I m sure that some vent dots are not lost in the empontilling. There is a lot of justification for better descriptions of what was done. I looked through over a dozen black glass bottle bottoms yesterday, and there are always thoughts of wondering how it was really accomplished. It is fun though - and keeps me in my bottle den away from too much beer or sleeping. RED M.

RED Matthews
03-29-2015, 05:31 PM
Well guys, Asterex and Tigue : I have posted a deicripton of pontlls before on the ABN. I have been thinking about looking back in my computer subjectfioes and brining it up for re write. I think I could review it and expand on it with mor information from four years of study and review. All four of these bottles now have a full page write up of description and I need to type it and maybe post them. The problem is - it will be a typing project. How ever there is a lot of difference in many points of these differences. We will work on it. I am doing this on about 6 or 700 hundred glass items I have here in mu den - right now. I have to do it so my daughter will know what they are when she has to sell them. I havfe a lot of different types of glass items that all need to be done. To help you guys I will work on these four next. Because I think these old ones I have are all 3 to 400 $ bottles in today's market - though I think the money shortage won't get it right now. All four of these have different - similar pontils for the different shapes of the bottoms have a difference in form. I have three people pushing me to put together a bgook on the old bottle making. After reading fifty or so old books written on bottle making and bottles collections, it lookis like a gigantic job. Scarry - too hair standing fear. There has to be a couple hundred different finishes. Different types, different seals, different handle applications, Different mold metals and foundry practices to create the dendritic irond, which we went to to make the mold glass contact areas stay hotter. The different mold metals for all glass contact that we went to for different reasons. And a lot of mold work we did to create special things - like the molds I had made with electro- formed nickel mold cavities we mounted in iron mold outer carrying holders. The special mold metals we applied to machine made mold components, and a skidillion things I have worked on. My wife (Better Half). thinks the only thing I know is bottles. Da!So I do have a paper started on pontil differences - and other subjects.Well that is enough prattle. RED Matthews

RED Matthews
04-04-2015, 03:40 PM
Well I have four early AMERICAN black glass bottles here on the floor, that I have write ups - to type up. I will have to get my camera working also. One has a vent dot that had clearance for the vent dot in the punty rod. One of these bottles was made in a three part mold - and the bottom mold casting cavity could not be chilled when the hot metal was poured, because the chilling iron couldn't have been removed. This made a bottle with nice smooth shoulders and the body of the bottles lower section looks horrible with cold mold ripple in the glass.I have covered that in another posting in my home page. The dendritic structure in chilled cast iron slows the mold cavity cooling of the glass solidification, and does away with cold mold ripple in the glass. It would be impossible to Knock the chill out - it would have to be machined out. Fun stuff to have the bottle tell you. RED M.

RED Matthews
04-06-2015, 12:31 PM
Well have a lot of pontiled glass and l have a lot of books with bits of information. A few years ago I made a post about a box that was about four foot long that had dividers in it for sand, glass dust particles, fine broken glass particles, and graphite - in each of the sections. This was in a book I had read and I can't find it now. When I go to Pontil s Only - I see a request for this subject coverage. It is on my list of things to do. REDM>

RED Matthews
04-06-2015, 05:02 PM
I have four bottles here by me on the floor. I made write-ups on leach of them an just now looked at the bottoms. to get to the one with a flat outer contact ring. This one is 1/2" wide. This bottle was made in a three mold set up. It has a 2-1/2" domed center cavity with a large vent dot in the center of it. The dome is about 5/8" deep. There is a vent dot in the denter, and the dome form was empontiled with a 3" stickey ball pontil that had a clearance hole for the vent dot. The vent dot is very smooth and didn't get any pick up of pontil specks. An interesting thing about this bottle is that the shoulder mold iron was chilled with dendritic iron mold cavity metal - so the glass is nice and smooth, with the seams showing. The bottom part of the mold was cast iron, that couldn't be chilled, because this is a one piece cast iron tube and the core cavity could not be chilled by pouring the molten metal against a cold iron center core. So the glass in that portion of the bottle has "Cold Mold Ripple" in the glass thickness of that lower part of the bottle. This glass condition was covered in my home page - chilling the molten cast iron metal creates a half inch to a 3/4" of the hot glass contact area. Chilled iron in this zone slows the heat extraction from the glass, and this change in making bottle molds - was what did away with the thickness differences in early glass - that people called whittle. And you don't whittle cast iron.
So - I will be interested in your reactions to this explanation. RED Matthews

So

RED Matthews
04-16-2015, 04:36 PM
So I have a few of these bottles, and I have seen a lot of empontilling that had clearance for the vent dots. I see the application of sand and/or glass dust in the pontiled dsurface. There just doesn't seem to be any books that describe enough for us. I have one book that illustrated a long wooden box with fivre different sections to hold iron dust, sand, gine grlound glass and graphite in sections of the box, So that satisfied me = because of the options. to the job do'er at the time. I just can't find which book it was in. RED Matthews

RED Matthews
04-22-2015, 04:48 PM
Well I have not seen any good review of these pontil marks, I have sde veral of them ande also have noticed that a lot of them have a taopered finish with a semall tapered section under the finish from the same tooling. i am also confused about the sources of these similar bottles - from north to south. At least the double tapered finish is American. RED Matthews