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View Full Version : Nuked or Not. Inquiring minds want to know.



botlguy
05-14-2013, 09:28 PM
O.K., as a continuation regarding artificially colored glass, my question is: In your opinion, have any of these 4 items been artificially color altered (Nuked, Heated, Stained, etc.) or are they all SCA Sun Colored Amethyst, color enhanced by exposure to U.V. Rays or Sun Light?

On the Left is an ECONOMY JAR I've owned for at least 30 years purchased at a farm sale. Next is a WAW-WAW sauce bottle I bought about 25 years ago in an antique shop in Orange, California. Third is a WAW-WAW I have had at least 15 years, it is only lightly SCA. Fourth is a pontiled Barber bottle I have had close to 30 years, made that color, on purpose, no signs of altering, documented for years as being made in this color.

I am sincerely interested in HONEST opinions.


https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/11770/4C7B765557E84F24824CCBBBD0079D6F.jpg

cyberdigger
05-14-2013, 09:33 PM
None of those look suspicious to me..

andy volkerts
05-14-2013, 09:37 PM
I would have said the Barber was Nuked, only because of its dark color, plus I know very little about Barber bottles. The others look fine by me, I have seen a lot of SCA glass and your first three pics is what it looks like. by the way I have personally known of a person in Stockton who has been U.V.ing glass for the last forty years in a lightbox lined with aluminum foil.

botlguy
05-14-2013, 09:44 PM
ORIGINAL: andy volkerts
. by the way I have personally known of a person in Stockton who has been U.V.ing glass for the last forty years in a lightbox lined with aluminum foil.

I used to own one, back in the 1960s when SCA bottles sold like purple colored glass [8|] and it works great.

andy volkerts
05-14-2013, 09:51 PM
So Jim. I guess we agree that Nuked bottles with u.v. light are okay if they arent to dark???

cyberdigger
05-14-2013, 09:57 PM
I collect beers & sodas from coastal NJ towns, so if I ever see a nuked one of those, I will consider it an altered variant.. if I need one I'll try, but I won't pay more for it than a natural one.. same goes with a tumbled one.. the closer they resemble the day they were born, the more I like them, and the more they are worth to me.

If, on the other hand, the bottle was worthless to begin with.. more power to the nuker..!

andy volkerts
05-14-2013, 10:03 PM
The problem Charlie is when the nuker takes, say the third bottle on Jims photo, and turns it into the second bottle in Jims photo. Nobody can tell that it has been NUKED, so as I said if you dont go ridiculously dark it doesnt really matter.....It may be a shame but the fact is there, you cannot always tell a nuked bottle from a non nuked one, the same goes for pro cleaned bottles.....

cyberdigger
05-14-2013, 10:09 PM
Well all I'm saying is if your a serious bottle collector, you got to know your chicken [8|]

andy volkerts
05-14-2013, 10:14 PM
So, Dont buy any of those bottles if they are SCA???

cobaltbot
05-14-2013, 10:18 PM
They look fine to me Jim, I've had naturally dark SCAs that I found as a kid and still find, especially Whistle sodas. Those Economy jars all always purple.

cyberdigger
05-14-2013, 10:25 PM
ORIGINAL: andy volkerts

So, Dont buy any of those bottles if they are SCA???


On the contrary, if it looks good with a sun tan, I buy it.. but if it's that awful deep dark purple I get hesitant..

zecritr
05-14-2013, 10:40 PM
yep what cyber said lol

thye all look cool to me,nothing i would question to much anyways

TJSJHART
05-15-2013, 12:03 AM
I'M LUCKY I ONLY COLLECT ACL'S[8|][8|]

andy volkerts
05-15-2013, 12:16 AM
[8D] Some of those are even old enough to be nuked, dont know what it would do to the painted label though[:o]

RIBottleguy
05-15-2013, 12:53 AM
They look fine to me. The fruit jar and darker Waw-Waw are about as dark as natural sun-coloring will allow. The Barber bottle was made in that color, sort of like the purple Mrs. Allen's Worlds Hair Restorer bottles.

treeguyfred
05-15-2013, 08:54 AM
Mr 147, they all look right to me as everyone previously have said. I too have many turn of previous century bottles that are naturally that dark like the waw waw bottle. I found them near surface at dumps which explains their darkness. Often the part of the bottle that spent long years exposed to the sun will be darker than the buried part.

By the way LOL, the two color bitters ... Is NOT NUKED.... I swear!

PS, a few weeks ago, I went to Bel Aire, MD. I took the ride through Easton, PA and down 611 and saw the historic Waw Waw complex .... quite impressive.

Good topic...
Fred

cowseatmaize
05-15-2013, 09:31 AM
I thought maybe the Economy may have been in a light box or many years in a window if that's the original clip, it's so clean. Steve said the jars are always tinted so I don't know.

GuntherHess
05-15-2013, 09:55 AM
People throw the term 'nuked' around a lot and it can be misleading.
THere are at least two different processes that can change the color of bottles.

One is UVB light irradiation. THis is exactly the process that the sun uses to change a bottle.
This will typically change a clear or aqua bottle containing manganese to a purple color.
There is no way to differentiate a bottle turned purple by the UV sun from a bottle turned by a UV lamp.
People often assume that deeper purple bottles must be done by UV lamps (and this is often the case) but given enough manganese and enough sunlight , bottles can naturally turn deep amethyst. Back before people started UV irradiating bottles deep amethyst bottles were fairly uncommon just because the odds of a bottle laying exposed in the sun for many years, undamaged, is low unless you live in a desert area.

The second process is hard nuclear radiation such is found in food packing plants. This can turn manganese containing glass a very dark amethyst (sometimes almost dark purple/cobalt looking or black) that could never be acheived by UVB light. It will also turn other chemistry glass weird colors, like green cokes to brown. Cobalt bromos to weird greens. These bottles could rightly be called "nuked".

botlguy
05-15-2013, 01:08 PM
ORIGINAL: GuntherHess

People throw the term 'nuked' around a lot and it can be misleading.
THere are at least two different processes that can change the color of bottles.

One is UVB light irradiation. THis is exactly the process that the sun uses to change a bottle.
This will typically change a clear or aqua bottle containing manganese to a purple color.
There is no way to differentiate a bottle turned purple by the UV sun from a bottle turned by a UV lamp.
People often assume that deeper purple bottles must be done by UV lamps (and this is often the case) but given enough manganese and enough sunlight , bottles can naturally turn deep amethyst. Back before people started UV irradiating bottles deep amethyst bottles were fairly uncommon just because the odds of a bottle laying exposed in the sun for many years, undamaged, is low unless you live in a desert area.

The second process is hard nuclear radiation such is found in food packing plants. This can turn manganese containing glass a very dark amethyst (sometimes almost dark purple/cobalt looking or black) that could never be acheived by UVB light. It will also turn other chemistry glass weird colors, like green cokes to brown. Cobalt bromos to weird greens. These bottles could rightly be called "nuked".


Very, very well stated Matt. I was going to try and say EXACTLY the same thing.

druggistnut
05-18-2013, 12:35 AM
Here is a classic, Jim.
I know for a FACT this bottle was not nuked, although many would claim it was. It went in to a purpling box and was there the same amount of time as the other bottles that went in with it. None are this dark.
It obviously had a large amount of manganese in the glass.
Now, do I try to lighten it up (I hear that you can do it in an oven?) or sell it as is?
Bill



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5164/D3F8E9CEC451439C8AD9ED84D7425E0C.jpg

epackage
05-18-2013, 12:47 AM
I consider lightboxes the same as nuking, although I'm assuming actually using the gamma ray method might get them to that super dark purple. I'm told the story about changing them back is a myth and nobody has ever shown it to work...

BillinMo
05-18-2013, 07:45 PM
Some experiments with insulators have shown some reversal of colors altered with radiation, but it's not consistent or predictable.

I've linked this a few times before, but maybe some haven't seen or read it. I'm not aware of any similar experiments with bottles.

http://www.nia.org/altered/index.htm

GuntherHess
05-18-2013, 08:30 PM
Now, do I try to lighten it up (I hear that you can do it in an oven?) or sell it as is?

If I collected Knoxville druggists I would have no problem at all buying that bottle an displaying in my collection. I see nothing wrong with it.

madman
05-18-2013, 10:02 PM
ORIGINAL: druggistnut

Here is a classic, Jim.
I know for a FACT this bottle was not nuked, although many would claim it was. It went in to a purpling box and was there the same amount of time as the other bottles that went in with it. None are this dark.
It obviously had a large amount of manganese in the glass.
Now, do I try to lighten it up (I hear that you can do it in an oven?) or sell it as is?
Bill



https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/5164/D3F8E9CEC451439C8AD9ED84D7425E0C.jpg
ahhhhhh not another knoxville purple bottle! i cant take it lol

madman
05-18-2013, 10:04 PM
ORIGINAL: GuntherHess


Now, do I try to lighten it up (I hear that you can do it in an oven?) or sell it as is?

If I collected Knoxville druggists I would have no problem at all buying that bottle an displaying in my collection. I see nothing wrong with it.
its a nice bottle and i do collect knoxville pharms but theres way too much purpling down here!

GuntherHess
05-18-2013, 11:27 PM
I guess its just a matter of taste. I probably wouldnt want my whole collection deep purple but few are fine. I like a little tint of amethyst. It tells you something about how the bottle was made.

glass man
05-19-2013, 02:52 AM
ORIGINAL: RIBottleguy

They look fine to me. The fruit jar and darker Waw-Waw are about as dark as natural sun-coloring will allow. The Barber bottle was made in that color, sort of like the purple Mrs. Allen's Worlds Hair Restorer bottles.

I agree the Barber's bottle is Amethyst...not even sun colored..at least that is my opinion...JAMIE

TROG
05-19-2013, 03:49 AM
There are bottles (mainly sauce bottles from the Melbourne glass works) found here in Australia that are as dark coloured as the Barber Bottle and are naturally sun coloured.

ORIGINAL: RIBottleguy

They look fine to me. The fruit jar and darker Waw-Waw are about as dark as natural sun-coloring will allow. The Barber bottle was made in that color, sort of like the purple Mrs. Allen's Worlds Hair Restorer bottles.

appliedlips
05-19-2013, 04:08 PM
Using heat,oven,kiln etc. will not lighten purples bottles. It will reverse colors like crappy ambers that would fade over time anyway. Trog is correct in saying some bottles produced at different glassworks will get very dark from natural Sun exposure. I know of a couple American glassworks that produced early aqua glass that will turn consistently when exposed to gamma due to naturally occurring manganese in the materials used to produce the glass.

RED Matthews
05-19-2013, 04:40 PM
All glass houses mixed their batch materials differently, and I am sure the amount of manganese they put wasn't always the same and/or frome glass house to glass house. I remember one thime when I was visiting a small glass house, they were even mixing the batch materials on a dirt floor with shovels. i couldn't believe it - but there it was.
Different amounts would effect the different colors the bottle would change to. When the WW 1 stopped the source from Germany - they all had to change their batch elements sooner or later and for sure when they ran out. RED Matthews

cobaltbot
05-19-2013, 08:56 PM
I don't have a problem with a light box but maybe that one should have been pulled earlier. I would guess the bottle would have eventually done that in the sun, especially someplace like Australia! I'm pretty sure you can't put a cobalt bromo in a light box and turn it green! I've been reading lately that the whole Germany/ manganese story is a myth however the war must have affected the supply somehow.