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View Full Version : cobalt duffy pig sold on ebay?



NHkeith
05-15-2013, 05:19 PM
did anyone else read about this RARE cobalt blue duffy pig whiskey bottle sold on ebay for $1199? could be worth close to 100K?

Ebay Link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Duffy-Figural-Pig-Whiskey-Bottle-EXTREMELY-Rare-/230977335529?pt=Antiques_Decorative_Arts&hash=item35c75270e9

Link to the story:
http://www.americanbottle.com/blue-pig-makes-for-an-ebay-bargain/

sandchip
05-15-2013, 10:44 PM
I read about it, but never saw it on ebay. Don't understand how I miss this stuff, 'cause I be lookin'

sandchip
05-15-2013, 10:50 PM
I see now that it was listed in bottles under decorative arts. The seller really robbed himself doing that.

Steve/sewell
05-16-2013, 06:36 AM
ORIGINAL: sandchip

I see now that it was listed in bottles under decorative arts. The seller really robbed himself doing that.

I see he got 44 more dollars then the page from his book said it was worth...........So he did Okay Jim[8D]

https://www.antique-bottles.net/upfiles/12005/8C7C2BD420E64FC4A6AC2875DE7487A1.jpg

harold
05-16-2013, 08:39 AM
Can anyone say repro?

cowseatmaize
05-16-2013, 08:45 AM
Can anyone say repro? I can but not about this at present.

GuntherHess
05-16-2013, 09:22 AM
I read about it, but never saw it on ebay. Don't understand how I miss this stuff, 'cause I be lookin'

its was a BUY IT NOW , was probably only there for a minute

cowseatmaize
05-16-2013, 09:38 AM
Listed May-07 13:18 Sold May 07, 2013 14:57:

RED Matthews
05-16-2013, 09:41 AM
It is almost criminal - but someone made some potential gain. I don't think for a minute it could be a repro. The cost of making the mold and then blowing it would take a tremendous buck to obtain. RED Matthews

cowseatmaize
05-16-2013, 09:44 AM
And 12 seconds but who's counting?[:D] Also PDT

cowseatmaize
05-16-2013, 09:47 AM
Good to see you back Red, keep in touch.

NHkeith
05-16-2013, 11:56 AM
I would send that one to the auction block :)

andy volkerts
05-16-2013, 04:57 PM
problem being the price in the book was for an amber example not a cobalt one, so HE DID shoot himself in the foot

westernglassaddict
05-17-2013, 05:35 PM
Definitely not a reproduction. This makes two cobalt examples known to collectors. I wonder how this seller would feel looking at the various bottle blogs and websites and seeing the huge dollar figures thrown out there for this cobalt pig? While it might not be realistically a $100k bottle, it would easily bring $50k. All it would take is for the non collector to see the chat about him selling the pig for $49k less than it's true value, and things would potentially go bad. Even though they set the price, I am confident that if they knew how special this example truly is, they would not have sold it for so little. They based their price on incorrect information, and though they own that decision, I see possible legal action being taken. Whomever "won"this bottle, had better keep this purchase under the radar...oh too late, there is a detailed story on American Bottle Auctions website, and others. You could rationalize " tough luck, they set the price", but it is still wrong. We all want to get a good deal, but this is not fair to the seller. That said, I do not know what I would have done if I had seen it first...wish I had, and also kind of glad I did not.

epackage
05-17-2013, 07:01 PM
What legal action do you think could be taken, I'm very interested in your point...[8|]

bostaurus
05-17-2013, 07:47 PM
Did they really have bad information? The description they apparently used did say amber.
I imagine we have all bought bottles that were undervalued..where would the line be drawn? Is it not right to pay below a certain percent of the estimated value and who determines the value? Would it be 10%, 50%, or more below?
What about the other way around? I was bidding on a vet bottle the other day and someone desperately wanted it. They wanted enough to pay about 50% more than the "normal" price. Great for the seller but should he have had it at a 'buy it now" price that was close to the estimated value?
I am no lawyer but I don't understand how you could make it a legal case. The person chose 'buy it now" and set a price. They could have chosen to start at that price and see where it went. That would have been interesting and more profitable for the seller.

sandchip
05-18-2013, 12:07 AM
It has always been my understanding that unless the buyer was to say, "I'll give you $750.00." for the cobalt pig when he knew that it was worth far more than the $1,199.00 asked, then the seller is just out of luck. If he accepted the offer, then later finds out that it's worth 50K, then he has a case against the buyer. If you pay what is asked, then tuff tootie. Of course, I'm no lawyer either.

epackage
05-18-2013, 12:52 AM
I'll believe there's a possible legal issue when people have to start giving half of their $4 million to thrift stores for the copies of the Declaration of Independence and Pablo Picasso's they buy for 50ยข...[;)]

sandchip
05-18-2013, 07:37 AM
Amen, bro

harold
05-18-2013, 07:41 AM
Ok. Now there are TWO repros.

appliedlips
05-18-2013, 09:15 AM
I agree price was set,no moral or legal issue. I don't understand the repro talk,it looks like the real deal. As far as value it will be interesting to see. I don't see why it would be so desirable. It isn't a bitters and isn't even an early bottle,but who knows. Then again people waste money on sillier things.

westernglassaddict
05-18-2013, 04:56 PM
It is desirable because, it is rare, it is blue, it is a figural, and it is embossed "saloon". Whether it is a bitters or not makes little difference. heck, historical, and figured flasks in wild colors are not even embossed with their contents, and sell for six figures regularly.
As to the legal issue, there does not have to be an outcome of liability or fraud to spend thousands in attorney fees to defend yourself. We all might have the sentiment" They set the price, so tough", but I assure you that knowingly(which the buyer did), taking advantage of someone who unknowingly ( this seller was), for any amount over $1,000 is grand theft. I have seen many instances where senior citizens are willfully taken advantage of with their possessions and thousands of dollars in jewelry, art, and antiques are "snaked" for pennies on the dollar and the elderly person sets the price...not having a clue as to true value. No matter what, this is wrong, and illegal.
Believe me, I love a smokin' deal, and if I see a bottle which is offered at an obviously low price I ALWAYS tell the person what it is likely worth to the collecting community...then I make my offer based on whether I am going to resell the item( usually an offer of half collector value), or I will offer way MORE than it's value if I want it real bad for my collection. There have been many times someone will give me a price, and I tell them that is too low. If I make more than expected at resale time, I have always paid the original seller more. I am sure everyone is saying "yeah right", but anyone who knows me knows this is true. By the way, I am not "rich" and have four sons, a wife, ex wife and a dog who take the vast majority of my $$$$. I am certainly not self righetous or morally superior to anyone...I just believe that if any one of you found out that your Mom sold the blue pig for almost $50k less than it's true value, you would not likely shrug your shoulders and say "oh well"...
It is incredible that whomever got the blue pig, was so jazzed about their "steal of a deal" that they obviously feel so great about it, that it is now known to the world. I for one feel kind of bad for the poor seller. But that's just me...some addicted western bitters collector.

epackage
05-18-2013, 05:19 PM
I understand your point of view but couldn't disagree more with the comparison to someone bilking the elderly and someone buying something priced too low on Ebay, I think you're argument holds no water whatsoever. I'll go back to my point about the treasures found at thrift stores that are then resold for millions without ever having to compensate the thrift store owners... I think you're letting your feelings for the seller's bad luck cloud your judgement regarding the legal end, it may be wrong but it's not illegal...

appliedlips
05-18-2013, 05:45 PM
I understand its desirability, just don't personally like them. Would much rather have a great historical flask or two. As far as the legal issue you are entitled to your opinion. If I were asked what something was worth and was dishonest in order to buy it that is wrong and deceitful. Seniors approached and targeted to sell something to or.buy something from is a different situation completely. This seller was seeking a buyer and named their price. It is not the buyers obligation to educate. What if they obtained it for $ .50 at a yard sale.. I have bought a four figure fruit jar at auction for $4, and a flask from the owner of a large antique mall that was sold for over 20 times what I paid. That said I am very honest in private dealings and when people come to me with an item looking for insight or pricing help. If we dig a great item in someone's yard even if a deal wasn't made, the property owner probably has a lot more of a case than this seller.

andy volkerts
05-18-2013, 06:10 PM
In this case I think the seller is out of luck re getting any more money out of the buyer, as the price was set and the item put up for bid. We all love to get a deal. and this was by all acounts a great deal!!

cyberdigger
05-18-2013, 06:18 PM
I believe it's entirely the responsibility of the owner of any given item to know what he has and sell it accordingly. If the owner can't be bothered to research the item and sells it for less than it's worth to someone else, that's his prerogative.. dealers and collectors who are 'in the know' have studied long and hard to get the knowledge they have, and opportunities to profit from the ignorance of others have always been there and always will be. That doesn't mean it's the slightest bit ethical to deliberately deceive the owner, but on the flip side, the owner has no obligation to sell, so often times everyone is happy. If I wasn't a bottle person and found that stupid blue pig in my attic, I'd be ELATED to sell it for $1200..

westernglassaddict
05-18-2013, 06:56 PM
All valid sentiments...I guess that being an uninformed seller creates an environment where it is all good for everyone as the seller likely paid a buck or maybe nothing originally for the pig. To be clear, I am not validating any type of legal claim in this specific case, but have been sued ( and prevailed) and STILL paid out over $30k in stupid attorney fees to defend my good name. You do not have to lose a legal case for it to suck...I for one appreciate the opinions expressed by you all. Hey, I would have bought the blue oinker in a hot second, but upon selling to goofy thing, would simply send the original seller some sugar. Maybe the president has not been set for bottles yet, but it has been for other similar things. You never know how crazy people will get, and plastering one's "find of the century" all over the net will sure open the possibility that the envelope will be pushed.
I live in a State where you cannot even dig for bottles on private property with the owner's permission without the strong possibility of some real legal crap going down...nothing surprises me any more. Times have changed and when some stupid idiot spills hot coffee and actually wins millions for actually buying a cup of coffee which they KNEW was going to be hot, we really have problems.

Off the soap box for now, and going digging tomorrow morning in the next State over. I will probably dig a blue pig with my luck.

soda bottle
05-25-2013, 10:46 AM
I think this is a repro. Now do you think the buyer is intitled his/her money back?

cowseatmaize
05-25-2013, 11:14 AM
I still think it's the real deal unless someone found the original mold. If that's the case than many more will be showing up. Start looking for them now!
I also think the seller had enough time to cancel the auction before shipping it after reading these posts and others.
No FB has been left (which means nothing really).
It will be available again whether sold or retracted if you want it.

soda bottle
05-25-2013, 11:33 AM
There are already cobalt Sulfolk bitters figural pigs being reproduced. I couldn't tell you for sure but its just my opinion. Color doesn't look right, no base wear and the burst lip looks just broken off.

beendiggin
05-25-2013, 11:53 AM
Taking advantage of people for financial gain can be a crime in some cases, but not all. It depends on the circumstances - there is outright fraud but then again there is skillful marketing or negotiating.

Ignorance is generally not a good defense.

A fool and his money will soon be parted.

cowseatmaize
05-25-2013, 03:07 PM
There are already cobalt Sulfolk bitters figural pigs being reproduced. I couldn't tell you for sure but its just my opinion. Color doesn't look right, no base wear and the burst lip looks just broken off. The Suffolk have been for many years and as for the burst lip looking broken off... well, isn't that kind of the definition of a burst lip?

andy volkerts
05-25-2013, 05:25 PM
ORIGINAL: cowseatmaize

[quote] well, isn't that kind of the definition of a burst lip?

Pretty much!!

sandchip
05-26-2013, 02:05 PM
ORIGINAL: westernglassaddict
...Times have changed and when some stupid idiot spills hot coffee and actually wins millions for actually buying a cup of coffee which they KNEW was going to be hot, we really have problems...


Or the embecile that puts his RV on cruise, goes to the back to fix something to eat, it runs off the road and wrecks, he sues and wins big because the owner's manual didn't tell him that he shouldn't have done that! The juries are as stupid as he is.

andy volkerts
05-26-2013, 07:14 PM
[:@] And now Google wants to market drive themselves cars

tboyhankz
05-28-2013, 04:36 PM
I see now that it was listed in bottles under decorative arts. The seller really robbed himself doing that.