x marks the spot

question? as young man ,an elderly gentlemen with large collection(passed on) SEVERAL YEARS BACK, told me boy you find one(bottle) with makers mark (X) you hang on to it not to many. how true is that, out of my collection I only have 1 pre prohibition.

Hi 2muchstuff, Your post is an interesting philosophy - I guess I don't know how to pick it up as a quote. Anyway, early bottle blowers and their shop was a closely knit group that were sworn to the secrecy and protection of their trade in sort of a guild type of code of ethics. That is why I have spent a lot of time reading old books that told bits and pieces of how their bottles were made. I have been doing this study for 14 years since I retired from, the glass industry. I spent about 45 years working in the industry, and have traveled to many parts of the world visiting glass manufacturers and assisting them with the application of special mold metals to make their production efficiency of mold equipment time on the machine producing and the life of their mold equipment last longer. It was what I call a vertical type of marketing aimed at a specialized analysis of product failure or success. My efforts were successful.

Now then back to your question. These early craftsman bottle makers often got paid a form of piece rate for their work - so they started having a mark put in the bottom portion of a BIM they were using. These were a makers mark, and they got to use them until the manufacturers and product buyers wanted their identity in this location. I have been collecting information on them and samples for a long time. There is quite an array of marks that have been used. (a # 3 - where the top of the 3 was tilted up on an angle); a square embossed frame like the one in-front of Embed picture below this message box); (the large six pointed * in different sizes), (the X this scout told you about); and the list goes on. Early Case Gins and whiskeys had a lot of them. In fact there is some reference to the responsibility of capacity control - where the bottle maker was creating a free formed shoulder - his mark meant he was responsible for the container he made.
One of these days I will get this blog completed for my homepage.
Thanks for your asking the question. I like this forum for it "tilts my pin-ball-machine" to try and help others. RED Matthews

Red as a kid i was fasinated by bottles had old dump with in walking distance of the house ,just take screw driver pop them out of the ground ,of course you could not give them away, sold entire first collection to dealer 400 bucks,started second one(collection) after driving age sold it within 2 years 800 ,got married had children,just started pickin them up here and there never notice X, for mark until that gentlemen mentioned it,I guess as you get longer in the tooth you notice the finer things in life.I only have one with x on it pre prohibition half pint.>>from the web, factory marks on bottles shows no X for marks,just trying to continue education, thank you.

Hi back, I hope I answered the basics of the makers marks reason and if I had your email address I could send you a few pictures of makers marks. I am working on two blogs right now for my homepage. They are Pontil Mark Scars and Bottle Makers Tools. They still need quite a lot of work to be done. Best regards RED M.

2much and Red,
Although I would agree whole heartedly that the mark of X on the base is related to the makers mark. It also might have a Geronimo section to it. He could not sign his name so he signed with an X. Meaning that the mark is also very simple to make and fast. As the bottles were produced by the hundreds, then thousands, the molds were then needed to be numbered etc to tell the difference between bottles made to order for certain sizes etc.. A very interesting topic. I would appreciate any photos on this subject. Thanks
Madpaddla

pre prohibition half pint

Hello again. Well I just went through a bunch of pictures looking for makers marks.
Now if I could figure out how to pick up a picture and make it embed in the post - I might show them. There is one with an + and a 3 with the top of the 3 shaped like a >. There are two with 3/4" squares embossed in the dome of the bottom. One has an eight line * that takes up most of the bottom of a case gin. There are others in my bottle collection that are not readily available. It is just an interesting phase of identities, but it does help with dating the bottle you have. RED M.