DATING OWENS-ILLINOIS BOTTLES

On almost a weekly basis someone will come along and inquire about dating bottles, with many of the inquiries specifically related to Owens-Illinois bottles, and especially acls. And althought this subject has been discussed many times in numerous threads, I thought this would be a good time and place to share where I personally obtained most of my information regarding this. The link below will take you to a website that should answer most, if not all of your Owens-Illinois dating questions. And please be sure to save the link in your favorites file for future reference. It is one of the most informative sites I know of on the subject. I have communicated with the article's author, Bill Lockhart, on numerous ocassions and rate him as one of the most advanced researchers in his field.

And yet, even with this said, the site does not answer "everything" related to Owens-Illinois bottles, which leaves me doing additional research of my own in an attempt to find the answers. For example; I have often wondered ...

1. "Why" were the majority of acl soda bottles made by Owens-Illinois? Is the answer ...

A. Because there were more Owens-Illinois glass plants than any other?
B. Because Owens-Illinois aggressively pursued that market?
C. Because Owens-Illinois was the first and most advanced to adopt the acl process?
D. Or some other reason?

2. "Why" do Owens-Illinois date codes all of a sudden start to appear on a regular basis on acl
soda bottles at just about the same time as the acl process was first introduced around 1934?

A. Coincidence?
B. Some other reason?

So there are still a few unanswered questions as you can see. But for the most part the following site should answer most of your basic questions, and hopefully provide you with a more comprehensive understanding of dating Owens-Illinois bottles in general.

I hope you find this information helpful. And I am sure you will, especially if you enjoy reading the more empirical discourses as I do.

Lesson Number One: What the heck does "Empirical" mean? Lol []

SODAPOPBOB

Safe Link To Owens-Illinois History/Dating Information by Bill Lockhart : http://www.sha.org/research_resources/newsletter_articles/lockhart.cfm

Answer to one of the questions above ...


em·pir·i·cal 

–adjective [/align] [/align]1. Derived from or guided by experience or experiment.[/align] [/align]2. Depending upon experience or observation alone.[/align] [/align]3. Provable or verifiable by experience or experiment. [/align][/align]

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Here is an additional question I forgot to list and have often wondered about ...

3. "Why" do so many of the earlier (1900 to 1933) embossed and deco-style soda bottles not have
specific dating codes on them? (Some do but not the majority). Is the answer ...

A. Because no one thought about it?
B. Because there was no need for it?
C. Because it was not required?
D. Or some other reason?

By the way ... Bill Lockhart is not only an advanced researcher, he is also a bonafide "Archaeologist."

SPBOB

And here is an example of what is referred to in Bill's article as a "Owens Scar."

Here is an example of a Owens-Illinois amber 7up acl bottle. Note the absence of a dot after the 5 which tells us it is a 1935 bottle.

21 <(I)> 5

However, I have to call into question the 21 which indicates the bottle was made in Portland, Oregon. But all of the list I have seen indicate that the Portland, Oregon Owens-Illinois glass plant did not begin operation until 1960. I do not mention this to challenge anyone, nor to shed the least bit of doubt on Bill Lockhart's extensive research, but rather as another example of a long list of as yet unanswered questions. The only thing I can think of is that the 21 is a transfer number from a glass plant that closed prior to 1960, and that it was somehow overlooked by the individuals who compiled the various Owens-Illinois list. I will be sure to ask Bill Lockhart about this the next time I e-mail him.

SPBOB

The list below is from my acl book. Note the 21 for Portland, Oregon, with indicates a start-up date of approximately 1960. If you go back to Bill Lockhart's site you will see a similar list ... which was orginally composed by and is from Julian Toulouse's 1971 book.

I've come across a lot of bottles, and unfortunately most of them have been newer bottles. Most of these were made by Owens-Illinois.

Based on the current research (at least that I've seen), it is INCREDIBLY difficult to come up with a precise date for an Owens-Illinois bottle, at least those without the two-digit date codes.

I've come across bottles with an undotted 1 to the right of the logo. This would at first indicate that the bottle was from 1931. However, they also have the "Duraglas" logo on the side, indicating them being from after 1940. 1941 seems to be the most likely date then. So, when did Owens-Illinois realize their date code system was flawed? It certainly took place after 1941. I believe it was even later, as the same situation occurred with a bottle from 1943.

Wheelah23 ~

Did you read Bill Lockhart's entire article? It answers your question(s) to some extent. But I hear ya and agree there is some confusion regarding all of this stuff. But if they can put a man on the moon I'm sure we will have it all figured out one of these days. Oh, wait! ... Did they actually put a man on the moon or was it ... ??? Lol []

Thanks for stopping by.

SPBOB

Just for the record, I have an original (1972 Second Printing) of Julian Toulouse's book, "Bottle Makers And Their Marks," and show it here to illustrate where most researchers came up with the Owens-Illinois plant numbers and dates that are so often quoted. And even though it is almost identical to the one I posted earlier, this one is the real deal, but with a few subtle differences.

SPBOB

By the way ... Toulouse's 1971 "First Edition" typically sells (with dust-jacket) for about $100.00-plus. I purchased my 1972 second printing for $40.00. It has an amazing amount of information that I would be happy to share with anyone who has a specific question they cannot find elsewhere. []

I'll do you one better: I took the book out through the local library, then I used my printer's scanner feature to scan every page of the book. Took a few hours, but it was worth it. Now I have a picture of each page of the book stored on my computer. This book is a lifesaver. It's pretty convenient too, AND I got the digital copy for free!

Just don't tell the book police... They probably wouldn't like to hear about this.