"Noble Catcher" Is this a Cyrus Noble Whiskey Bottle?
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CarltonHendricks
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Jim, Thanks for the Globetrotter photos....classified Globetrotter memorabilia.....I'm afraid you and that elderly lady from the garage sale will have to come in for questioning at once!
Surf, Glad you enjoyed those Groove Skates and Barney Oldfield...Barney was quite a find out of the blue...Yeah if you're in the Northwest that Portland show is great...Thanks also for the sports bottle link...my favorite is the Huskers one....and the speed ball is pretty nice too....I have the Players one someplace...the first one posted.
I've been finding stuff everywhere lately....Just got two incredible rowing pieces...a huge killer statue and a 19th-early 20th century 43" wooden folk art two man scull model...i almost don't want to find anything for a while till I catch my breath
Surf, Glad you enjoyed those Groove Skates and Barney Oldfield...Barney was quite a find out of the blue...Yeah if you're in the Northwest that Portland show is great...Thanks also for the sports bottle link...my favorite is the Huskers one....and the speed ball is pretty nice too....I have the Players one someplace...the first one posted.
I've been finding stuff everywhere lately....Just got two incredible rowing pieces...a huge killer statue and a 19th-early 20th century 43" wooden folk art two man scull model...i almost don't want to find anything for a while till I catch my breath
GLOPTOP
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Hey CarltonHendricks, you may find out if this bottle is a Cyrus Noble by contacting the premier collector of Cyrus Noble bottles and advertising items ( only old stuff, nothing new ). Since you seem to be from the northern Calif. area, you may know him, as he used to live there. However, he now lives in Reno, Nevada. I am talking about Russell Umbracco, who has collected Cyrus Noble for over 40 years. You can email him at "russellu1@juno.com" or call him at 510-693-0550. Maybe he can help!
Dennis "GLOPTOP" Rogers
Dennis "GLOPTOP" Rogers
CarltonHendricks
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RE: "Noble Catcher" Is this a Cyrus Noble Whiskey Bottle?
DONE!...see email copy below. Thanks very much Dennis...
Hello Russell,
Carlton Hendricks here...A member of Antique-Bottles.net by the name of Dennis Rogers referred me to you to I.D. a bottle I have of a baseball catcher...called “Noble Catcherâ€...Please see it in the link above. thanks
Kindly
-Carlton
DONE!...see email copy below. Thanks very much Dennis...
Hello Russell,
Carlton Hendricks here...A member of Antique-Bottles.net by the name of Dennis Rogers referred me to you to I.D. a bottle I have of a baseball catcher...called “Noble Catcherâ€...Please see it in the link above. thanks
Kindly
-Carlton
CarltonHendricks
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This just in....
I had not gotten a reply from Russell Umbracco so this afternoon I called him to see if he got my email....turns out he replied yesterday very early at 12:12AM and it was stuck in my junk email filter!!.....see his reply posted below. He doesn't think my bottle is a Cyrus Noble bottle...he even has one himself....Moreover, during our phone call Russell provided me more information than in his email...
I'm still on overload from our conversation as I write this. One of the biggest things I recall was he said my bottle has been referenced in at least one if not more of the antique bottle magazines and the question of whether or not it's Cyrus Noble has come up before...He also told me he discussed my bottle with Ernest R. Lilienthal, CEO of Haas Bros and Lilienthal didn't believe the Noble baseball bottles were issued by Cyrus Noble...Also as we spoke Russell provided he's seen figural wine bottles consistent with the style of my bottle and speculated it could be of French or another non-American nationality..
Hi Carton: Your research was interesting, and I can't cover all your
questions in a few words. As Dennis said, I have been collecting and
researching anything Cyrus Noble and related for over 40 years. My best
insight and information came from much contact with the family and
particularly; Ernest R. Lilienthal, CEO of Haas Bros., and Grandson of
the founder. When we have more time, I will share many details with you.
I know you want to know more about the Noble Catcher and Noble Pitcher
bottles, but there were no company references nor recollections that
these were procured by the company or used for Cyrus Noble whiskey. I do
have one in my own collection as it goes well with a picture of the Cyrus
Noble sponsored baseball team of around 1910 (Cyrus Noble is written on
the uniform in large letters). The bottles are typical of French
figurals, circa.1910. Yes, many bottles were manufactured in Europe for
filling with liquors and other products produced here.
Best Wishes; Hope to see you at the FOHBC show in Reno July 27-29, 2012.
... Russell Umbraco
Russell said it was about 30 years ago when he spoke with Ernest Lilienthal and that he thinks Lilienthal was about 60 years old then....30 years ago would have been 1982...So that would mean Lilienthal was born around 1922....Growing up around the Cyrus Noble marketing since 1922 would make him an excellent source of knowledge on the company's history...but it's not conclusive. If my bottle was issued in 1880 that would have been about 40 years before he was born...
Though my position has weakened I'm still not completely sold that my bottle isn't a Cyrus Noble...but if it were I speculate it would have to have been a foreign designer who would have come up with the phrase "NOBLE CATCHER"....That just doesn't sound at all the way an American would describe a baseball player....As a matter fact....to me it doesn't even seem like a foreign view of a baseball player....unless they looked up to baseball players as some sort of stoic figures of virtue....
I speculate the bottles designer may have felt it was neccessary to identify the player as a "catcher" because the modeling of figural glass bottles, by their nature, can be indefinite to the casual viewer. To remedy that the designer may have employed the word "CATCHER" in larger letters leaving only enough room for NOBLE to identify the brand.
I had not gotten a reply from Russell Umbracco so this afternoon I called him to see if he got my email....turns out he replied yesterday very early at 12:12AM and it was stuck in my junk email filter!!.....see his reply posted below. He doesn't think my bottle is a Cyrus Noble bottle...he even has one himself....Moreover, during our phone call Russell provided me more information than in his email...
I'm still on overload from our conversation as I write this. One of the biggest things I recall was he said my bottle has been referenced in at least one if not more of the antique bottle magazines and the question of whether or not it's Cyrus Noble has come up before...He also told me he discussed my bottle with Ernest R. Lilienthal, CEO of Haas Bros and Lilienthal didn't believe the Noble baseball bottles were issued by Cyrus Noble...Also as we spoke Russell provided he's seen figural wine bottles consistent with the style of my bottle and speculated it could be of French or another non-American nationality..
Hi Carton: Your research was interesting, and I can't cover all your
questions in a few words. As Dennis said, I have been collecting and
researching anything Cyrus Noble and related for over 40 years. My best
insight and information came from much contact with the family and
particularly; Ernest R. Lilienthal, CEO of Haas Bros., and Grandson of
the founder. When we have more time, I will share many details with you.
I know you want to know more about the Noble Catcher and Noble Pitcher
bottles, but there were no company references nor recollections that
these were procured by the company or used for Cyrus Noble whiskey. I do
have one in my own collection as it goes well with a picture of the Cyrus
Noble sponsored baseball team of around 1910 (Cyrus Noble is written on
the uniform in large letters). The bottles are typical of French
figurals, circa.1910. Yes, many bottles were manufactured in Europe for
filling with liquors and other products produced here.
Best Wishes; Hope to see you at the FOHBC show in Reno July 27-29, 2012.
... Russell Umbraco
Russell said it was about 30 years ago when he spoke with Ernest Lilienthal and that he thinks Lilienthal was about 60 years old then....30 years ago would have been 1982...So that would mean Lilienthal was born around 1922....Growing up around the Cyrus Noble marketing since 1922 would make him an excellent source of knowledge on the company's history...but it's not conclusive. If my bottle was issued in 1880 that would have been about 40 years before he was born...
Though my position has weakened I'm still not completely sold that my bottle isn't a Cyrus Noble...but if it were I speculate it would have to have been a foreign designer who would have come up with the phrase "NOBLE CATCHER"....That just doesn't sound at all the way an American would describe a baseball player....As a matter fact....to me it doesn't even seem like a foreign view of a baseball player....unless they looked up to baseball players as some sort of stoic figures of virtue....
I speculate the bottles designer may have felt it was neccessary to identify the player as a "catcher" because the modeling of figural glass bottles, by their nature, can be indefinite to the casual viewer. To remedy that the designer may have employed the word "CATCHER" in larger letters leaving only enough room for NOBLE to identify the brand.
surfaceone
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Howdy Carlton,
It's still way better than an Ignoble Catcher. Who would fill that bill? Pop Snyder, maybe. He even bears a bit of resemblance to your bottle, especially around the moustache.
Obviously not Holden Caulfield, either. Rafael Noble is not old enough
"Ode to Buster Posey
The runner flies down the third base line
With such reckless force he should be fined.
But willing is he to take a thoughtless chance
And alas our noble catcher cannot shift his stance..." From.
The runner flies down the third base line
With such reckless force he should be fined.
But willing is he to take a thoughtless chance
And alas our noble catcher cannot shift his stance..." From.
"Are you tired of seeing Alex Avila grimace in manly pain as his mask gets knocked off, or he gets a bat to the helmet, or yet another foul ball goes screaming off his instep? Does it sadden you to see this noble catcher, a true national treasure, threatened by carelessness, incompetence– even sometimes malice?.." From.
"The Yankees went on to win the game 7-4, and the series 4-0. It is now six decades later, and I honestly don't know if Ernie would later father children, but I do know that in the days that followed, the Cincinnati Inquirer accused this noble catcher of "snoozing at a critical moment." Frankly, I think this is a tad harsh for a man who nearly sacrificed his genetic legacy two times in two seconds, just so his team could win a stupid baseball game." From.
"as a pitcher, I can really appreciate a good and noble catcher"
I think there is a special kind of nobility in Catchers, and, though I don't have period sports pages at hand, I bet this was a term used often to describe both Pitchers and Catchers, especially of the "home" team.
Forget Lilienthal, I think you have to look backwards to the Crown Distilleries days...
epackage
Well-Known Member
After almost 6 years the preeminent figural bottle expert Michael E. Anderson found an example of the figural pitcher with original cap/stopper, he tells me these were most likely made by the West Virginia Bottle Works, so much for the French attribution. Photo courtesy of the "Anderson Library", I'm hoping Carlton sees this post...
Mike says "I want to clarify that the "Partial" 1884 Catalog that I am in possession of does not show these bottles. I am making the conclusion that these bottles were sold from the same company at a slightly later time because I have every bottle in the catalog and the glass composition and style of manufacture is spot on. In the 4000 plus bottles I own from all over the world, only this company manufactured bottles in the same consistently textured frosted glass."
Mike says "I want to clarify that the "Partial" 1884 Catalog that I am in possession of does not show these bottles. I am making the conclusion that these bottles were sold from the same company at a slightly later time because I have every bottle in the catalog and the glass composition and style of manufacture is spot on. In the 4000 plus bottles I own from all over the world, only this company manufactured bottles in the same consistently textured frosted glass."
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Nice to see you pop up here and thanks for the update! It's good to close the loop on these topics even if the original poster doesn't see them as they are all searchable and I am sure many people use this forum for research.
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