what do we know about Iron Pontil marks

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AntiqueMeds

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I was trying to come up with a characterization of iron pontil marked bottles.
In my case iron pontil marked medicines. I have recorded about 250 different iron pontil marked medicines.
Since I have recorded at least 10 x as many open pontil marked medicines, iron pontils were apparently less commonly used or used for a shorter period (or both) on medicines.
A couple things I have noted about iron pontils...
-they were typically used on larger medicines, 7" or larger
-they were typically seen on bottles with applied lips (not flared or rolled)
-they seem most prevalent from the 1850s.
-they seem to have been used at most glass making locations in the USA

my impression is it was a technology which offered an improved method of holding a heavier bottle while a lip was applied. It could be released with less chance of breaking the bottle. It was replaced by another improvement (the snap case) around the civil war fairly quickly.

One question I have is when did use of an iron pontil generally begin? What are the earliest examples of iron pontil bottles that people have (which dates can be verified)
 

epackage

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1850 Matt...

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cowseatmaize

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I'd have to look deeper but my understanding is the IP was very short lived. It was overlapped in many factories by OP and Snap holders but really only used from about the late 1850's to early 1860's.
Of course others will know from memory but I lack that facility.[:)][:D][:mad:][:eek:]
 

AntiqueMeds

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we have an 1850 bid [;)] Can anyone show proof of an earlier one?
I will have look and see ones I have recorded that look early. I know most I have seen are mid 1850s to 1860s.
 

cowseatmaize

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Cecil Munsey states the bare iron pontil as 1845-70. I can't argue with the master so I retract my opinion.
 

kungfufighter

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my impression is it was a technology which offered an improved method of holding a heavier bottle while a lip was applied. It could be released with less chance of breaking the bottle. It was replaced by another improvement (the snap case) around the civil war fairly quickly.

I fully support this message. There's an exception to every rule (in that I have seen a couple of iron pontiled umbrellas) but yes, by and large, this statement is in my experience spot on.
 

baltbottles

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Matt I would think that around 1844 iron pontils were being used on soda bottle replacing blow pipe pontils and there are morning star bitters with the 5 8 69 date that are iron pontiled so 1844-1870 would be a very good estimation of date range.

Chris
 

AntiqueMeds

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That is pretty good evidence for at least the 1870 date.

Are there any iron pontil marked bottles from the 1840s that can be specifically dated no later than that period?
Like a druggist or brewer who went out of business in 1845?

With all due respect for Mr Munsey I'd prefer to see actual evidence before I state it as fact. There is a lot of folklore in the collecting realm.
 

Road Dog

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On the Tweddle Soda Waters John Tweddle operated from the Courtland Street address from 1844 to 1848. From 1849 to 1854 he moved to 41 Barclay Street. My Courtland Street bottles are all Iron pontilled. I think the very earliest 1844 were the open pontil bottles.
 

botlguy

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I have always thought of 1855 - 1865 as the Iron Pontil / Improved Pontil (Graphite Pontil) era but definitely agree with Matt / AntiqueMeds that a proven date is what we need to have in order to call it fact, at least as for as can be determined.

I have read in this thread some outstanding evidence that the Improved Pontil was used 10 years before I thought it was and perhaps 5 years later. Thank you guys for your information. All of your approaches and attitudes are commendable. Excellent thread.
 

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