Need welding help

midway49 · Dec 10, 2012

When I needed a new bead on my probe rod, I usually let the machine shop do it, but at one point I has access to a small mig welder and did my own. I don't know the amps on that machine, and I'm sure it used mild steel wire, but it was fine for a rod bead. Now I would like to buy an inexpensive mig welder just for that use. But two experienced welders are telling me the small, 80 or 90 amp, cheap $100-150, welders won't work. I still hesitate to believe it wouldn't deposit a small amout of bead on a stainless steel rod. I don't care how long it takes me or how much grinding I have to do.

Anyone have any experience with this and can help me out?

AntiqueMeds · Dec 10, 2012

just weld a nut near the tip and grind it how you want it.
Are you really using a stainless rod for the probe?

mtfdfire22 · Dec 10, 2012

ive welded for about 12 years now and do it quite frequently as a mechanic and ex body man.

you will be able to weld a tip with a low amp welder, but, judging by the price i assume you are talking about a flux cored wire. This will only be a problem to an extent. a gas welder will do a much better job as you do not have to chip slag off of each layer. Skip the nut all together, you do not need it, considering you are using stainless instead of spring steel. With spring steel, you will loose the temper if you get it hot by welding a ball to the tip which is the only reason we weld nuts on our spring steel rods.

until i found a good stock of spring steel i used stainless hex rod which i welded a mass of steel onto and ground down to my liking.
I probed out as many pits with my stainless rod as i have my spring steel rods but the dont sound as good and they do bend easily.

you really should leave it to a veteran welder if you want a good job done. get your welder, get some practice, but until you are comfortable just pay someone $5 bucks to throw a tip on the thing once or twice a year.

One of my best probes i purchased is braised. i love it, but, if you cool the braised area too fast, it will snap, if you dont get it hot enough, it will not hold. What im saying is if you have access to an oxy acetylene torch, give that a try but remember, braise is glue, not weld, and its very very difficult to master. thats one thing that i spent many many hours to get right, but i do get as good or better results from it. and its cheap.

good luck
nic

PrivyProwler · Dec 10, 2012

From a fabricators point of veiw I would not recommend useing stainless, as you would need proper rod/wire. Also a tig welder would be more suitable for stainless applications. Spring steel or cold roll in 1/4" - 5/16" Diam. would be recommended.

mtfdfire22 · Dec 10, 2012

the thing is Prowler, you dont need a structurally sound weld here. its a tip on a probe, your not holding a quarter panel on. i have never had a tip pull off or fall off when i used a mig welder on stainless. obviously the tip will no longer be stainless, but, it will hold and i have a stainless probe that i used for two years and the tip is a fresh as the day i put it on. take for example the fact that most muffler shops use a standard 110 volt mig welder on stainless exhaust. all newer cars have stainless exhaust and im underneath cars all day long and have never seen a tig weld on exhaust unless its a show car.

midway49 · Dec 11, 2012

Thanks guys. I've been getting my rods from Agri Drain Corp and they just state in catalog that they are stainless. I've had good luck welding a bead on myself with mig, but don't know if it was flux core, what the wire was, or size of machine (it was small and portable and I don't have access to it anymore). I feel confident it was not stainless wire.

I just don't want to buy a welder that I can't use. And if I have to spend over $150-200 then I'll continue going to machine shops. But that is an inconvenience I have endured for 35 years.

druggistnut · Dec 11, 2012

I probed out as many pits with my stainless rod as i have my spring steel rods but the dont sound as good and they do bend easily.

We were working large field one day. I was in a hole and reached up and grabbed what I THOUGHT was MY 4' probe, to run down the bottom of the pit. Well, it was Nic's 4' NON-spring steel probe. As I gave a good push on it, it bent like a wet noodle. I put that probe pretty much out of commission. Sorry, Nic.
I will take spring steel over stainless ANY day. If you have a stainless probe, don't let anyone else touch it, as you know exactly what type of finesse it requires, without reefing on it.

BTW. I always have a hardened nut at the end of my probe. The guy at the local muffler shop puts a new one on a couple times a year and he doesn't charge me, as I have all my exhaust work done there. If I am lucky, I get my probes to Nic and he does them. I have the nut covered and I grind it off to a ball with a ledge on the back.
Bill

PrivyProwler · Dec 13, 2012

fire22 My last job was in a specialty exhaust shop of 8 years, so i know what ur saying. I Agree with optimal heat it would hold and most likely last for a very long time depending on the hardness of the ground being probed. I was more or less implying that cold roll or springsteel rod would have a more forgiven stress factor in probing. Example: If ur probing in and around the Marcellus shale NY/PA as I am than you would want a rod that has the best flexability, Also one would pay twice as much for stainless.

baltbottles · Dec 13, 2012

My opinion of a good probe is as follows.

1. 5 foot or a bit longer based on your height. Personally I like one about 5'4" I'm 5'9" I find it easy to get into all bout the hardest soil.

2. Hollow handle with a diameter of about 2 inches. And I like the handle to be 13.5 inches long this keeps my hands in a position they feel comfortable while probing. And the hollow handle allows for great resonance from objects you touch. Can easily tell if I'm touching brick, stone, glass/ceramic or oyster shell. Can tell if the soil is ash or clay or soft loam just by the sound and feel.

3. Made of spring steel. I've tried other materials and nothing compares.

4. I prefer to weld on my handle and tip. Yes it may cause loss of temper at those places but granted its at the ends of the rod not in the middle where the temper matters. I have bent many tips while out probing and its usually not hard to find something to bend them back straight. I often use a crack in a sidewalk or curb with great success.

5. Probes take a lot of stress and will break or wear out over time. Always bring two probes with you when probing. If one fails for any reason just grab the spare and keep going.

I have made at least 50 probes over the past 10 years for myself and friends and have sold quite a few at bottle shows. I have probably broken or worn out 5 or 6 myself over that time. But I dug a couple thousand pits in the past ten years so that was a lot of probing. For all but the hardest core diggers a couple good probes should last a very long time.

Chris

caldigs · Dec 17, 2012

Unless you dig once or twice a year, a spring steel probe with a braised on handle and tungsten carbide hard facing tip is a must. Anything less is like chopping firewood with a plastic ax !

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