Hi y'all - new to the group. We recently discovered a sidewheel steamer in deep water off Florida. There is a significant quantity of bottles spread across the bottom, which we believe to be the scattered top layer of cargo, with the remainder buried in the sediment. We recovered a few of the exposed bottles as samples to try and help date the wreck. Our current hypothesis is this may be a Civil War blockade runner called the C. VANDERBILT (aka BLACK JOKER), lost in 1862. Can anyone help with the identifications of these bottles, perhaps providing date range, use/contents, and perhaps value? The most common bottle we saw was the Bordeuax-style wine bottle. However, it is quite small at 9.5 inches in height. [attachment=photo 2(1).JPG]We also recovered bottles containing what might be brandied fruit; the bottle has a threaded glass stopper and saltwater does not appear to have intruded into the bottle. You can still see the round fruit inside the bottle.[attachment=photo 1(1).JPG]I also recovered a big jar that is embossed WILLIAM UNDERWOOD & COMPANY on the bottom with 128 OZ around the shoulder.[attachment=photo 3(1).JPG]Thanks in advance for any information or insight you can share. Cheers,Mike
shipwreck bottle finds
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MichaelFla
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Do any of them have pontil marks?
hemihampton
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If he is not a bottle collector you might have to show him or explain to him what Pontil means. When I first got in here did not know what it was? LEON.MichaelFla said:
Yes, the big jar has one, as does the fruit preserve bottle. The wine bottles have deep punts so not sure if that would have a pontil scar or not. The wine bottles are similar to those recovered off an 1865 shipwreck, though the lip is apparently different indicating they could be older.
botlguy
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First of all, WELCOME to the forums and please don't be a one post wonder. Those are terrific finds, THANKS for sharing, you will be a great addition to our group.The William Underwood jar is listed in Red Book #8 as #2835 if you mean it's embossed on the HEEL of the jar rather than the bottom / base. My Red Book does not list it as pontiled but perhaps the later editions do. This would indicate that at least some of the cargo was American and dates to the 1860s. The wine bottles appear to be European made and from that same time period.I am completely unfamiliar with the inside screw stopper bottle and fascinated by it. Ya'll Come on back, hear! Jim
MichaelFla
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I don't speak pontil as fluently as others here. I am under the impression that generally pontiled means Civil War and earlier, but I believe the type of pontil can help to date the bottles more accurately. Can you provide photos of the bottoms? By the way, congrats on the great finds, and I wish you luck in finding more. Hopefully soon I will be able to get out and dive some as well.I know you didn't ask, but the William Underwood jar has a collector's value of $300+.
MichaelFla
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Jim, the photo shows the embossing on the heel. But RB 10 also does not indicate that the 128 oz version is pontiled, though one of the other versions is, and one version is known with and without pontils. Perhaps this is an unknown version.
botlguy
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Thanks for that info Michael, my tired old eyes couldn't see the heel embossing. It could be a new variant or an oversight. Whatever the case, it's a valuable jar, worth mid-three figures. JimMichaelFla said:
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