Pint Lightning jar question

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MNJars

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Alright, I was going to avoid this thread but I can't help it. I won't say that this jar IS or IS NOT a repro. All I'll say is that this jar looks wrong to me for the following reasons: 1. This jar matches the description of a known repro with the exception of the ground lip. There are pictures out there of these jars with other modifications. For example, there is one on the NAG completed auctions where someone turned an unmarked Lightning repro into a fake amber "Globe" half pint. The general shape of this jar appears to match the general shape of that jar minus the word Globe and the bail. Auction #2875 if you are curious.2. The ground lip looks wrong. Ground lips typically elevate vertically and are ground flat across the top forming a rectangle in profile, generally speaking. This jar, at least from the picture provided, looks like the lip was originally rounded like a smooth lip, and was subsequently ground, or partially ground in this case having the appearance of rounded with a flat ground spot on top.3. The bail - as stated by jargeezr - should have 3 twists if it were a Lightning jar instead of a double hook. This observation by itself does not mean that it is a repro! It only means that it doesn't quite fit with what we would typically see of Lightning jars.4. The ground lid. Why is the lid partially ground on the bottom? Lightning lids were never ground. This screams that someone modified the lid at some point. Would they also modify the jar? Maybe, who knows.5. The picture is hard to tell for sure, but it looks ground on the base. That's not normal and leads me back to #4. Now, please feel free to tell me how incompetent I am at my hobby.
 

jarsnstuff

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The reason I asked to see a photo of the top of the lid was because something just didn't feel right about this jar - pretty much all the reasons mentioned above by MNJars. My gut feeling is that someone went to great lengths to make the jar appear to be old and original. How long did the folks in this 120 year old house collect bottles and jars? Into the 1970s or 1980s? The "Dream Color" Mason's Patent jars were made in 1971 - and I think the repro Lightning half pints date almost that far back as well. Who's to say those folks didn't get snookered? However, Jaroadshow, if you can't respect the humble opinions of the people on this forum - maybe you should seek the opinions of some "real experts". May I suggest Greg Spurgeon, Jerry McCann, June Lowry, Doug Leybourne, or someone else of your own choosing. I'd sure be curious to know what they say. -Tammy
 

jaroadshow

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Hi: I am starting to wonder myself and have doubts on it being a period jar.I am attaching a couple more pictures , close - up of the lip profile and the base showing where the seam ends at the base. Let me know if it is synonymous with a reproduction. Thanks jaroadshow
 

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jarsnstuff

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I'm attaching some photos of an aqua half pint in my collection for comparison. The differences are all pretty subtle, but put them all together and yes, I think there's little doubt that you've got a repro. I'm sorry.
 

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jaroadshow

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Thank You very much. I believe this clears it up. I guess there is little doubt. The jar didn't cost really anything at all as I purchased a bunch of old bottles and jars, old jar bands and lids as a lot, for a very good price. Actually going back this afternoon to pick out a bunch more. Thanks again jarsnstuff ! jaroadshow
 

MNJars

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I am curious if "reproduction" is the correct term here. It's really just a jar, right? It isn't reproducing or faking a known jar.
 

jarsnstuff

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Technically, you may be correct - there was never an actual production jar made exactly like this. However, it does bear a strong resemblance to the half pint Trademark Lightning jars that WERE produced so I think "reproduction" is still applicable. I imagine we could have another whole discussion on what does or does not constitute a repro [;)]-Tammy
 

rallcollector

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I think the fact someone installed an older, rusty bail/tie wire [hoping to deceive?] kicks it into the repro wasteland.
 

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