Historical geometric flask find!

A few more very detailed pics would help determine if it is the real deal... such as close-ups of the pontil, lip, and neck. There were some very realistic reproductions made, I'm not saying yours is one though.

MuddyMO said:

I'm curious why the assumption on it being a repro (honestly curious)? It's held at an angle in the pic, yes, but the flask is there and details, and mold shape is just as a GVIII-2 has. There is a sticky glass pontil scar (with minor pontil scar bruise), the bottom mold seam is there, and there is some base wear, and high point wear on the motif and bands. The color is one of the known colors it appears in. Weighs just about two pounds. It was compared against a Heckler listing, in which it is nearly identical in all aspects. Marlboro Glass Works, Keene NH is apparently where it was made.

The repros I compared against are not the same, and has a wet glass look. Not one repro I found comes in this known color, and they seem quite different and discernable from real ones. I searched and ensured that this flask was the real for seemingly hour's.

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No ones assuming it's a repro, they are just advising caution and asking for more info. One big red flag would be your definition of a "sticky glass" pontil. Keene stuff, IIRC, usually comes with your standard, American, ring shaped blowpipe type of pontil. What I think of as a sticky glass pontil, sort of a solid blob of glass on the bottom, would be not correct. Several have said there are some REALLY GOOD repros of this form, meaning good enough to fool many collectors. Show a pic of the base and the neck up close. That'll help the experts on here to give you better opinions. Jim G

I say its a reppro

I say its a reppro

The neck the top the whole thing looks wrong. Way to crisp

RICKJJ59W said:

The neck the top the whole thing looks wrong. Way to crisp

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Well. now that you say that, I'm quite unsure of myself and my ability to see antique glass. I've even asked to be put on the transplant list at the hospital for new eyes. Joking aside, here's what I've deduced. By the way, now I have spent hours and hours of researching GVIII-2, and have lost interest in the shape of this flask. I absolutely adored the shape and bands that make this flask so unique! Reproduction Mold Characteristics: Two reproduction molds in which I found.1.) There is one mold in which the top bezel (rings below spout) bears a triangular shape, and the spout is completely tubular without any trace of mold line. It is obviously a reproduction, and the examples seen have the spout almost as wide as the top band. A fake pontil has been placed on the base, and there is no sign of a mold line traversing the base. The base is not the same shape as a real example, the dimensions of the entire bottle are off as a result. 2.) There is another mold in which the features are more alike to the real GVIII-2, and seemingly is a fit for the real thing. From what is evident, the sunburst details are less detailed towards the center, and even fade into nothing. Tiny details from the mold have been lost. The sunburst motif seems to not have a prominent outer edge on the relief (meaning, it ain't sticking out from the plain background independently, it mostly blends together with the background). The bands seems to be very close, if not almost exact, to the real flask. The spout varies slightly, but seems to not have any mold line trace in it. Base has a fake pontil applied, no evidence of a mold line traversing the base. So, from these two molds, already there are differences that stand out in the example I have in hand.a.) Mold line traversing the baseb.) Pontil scar has evidence of being a functioning part of the manufacture process, due to jagged parts of the pontil and a small bruise on the edge of the pontil where it meets the mold line. 'Sticky pontil' was the term applied to the GVIII-2's pontil type, and it is similar in manner to the GVIII-29's pontil that was next to it.c.) Spout has traces of the mold line going up the sides, as do many shear top flasks. Here are some additional notes on the flask I have in hand;a.) There are pieces of firebrick within the glass, and the largest being an 1/8" at it's widest on the sunburst.b.) On the mold seams along the bands about 2/3's the way down, is a bit of excess glass on both sides.c.) The flask weighs 2lbs. 4oz., and is thick. d.) Slightly uneven base despite the pontil.e.) There is base wear, and high point wear consistent with age.f.) The spout has some junk in glass, including 'spit' (tiny bubbles in a streak) and firebrick. Compared to other sheared lip flasks around the same time of manufacture, this is a consistent occurrence in about 20 shear tops I examined (yes, all of them real historical flasks). There are tool marks to the inside of the spout, and also at the very edge, annealing fissures to the inside (which occur in almost all the shear tops I looked at).g.) The details in the flask are crisp, however, the glass is mildly whittled and shows crudeness in the base and where there is no decoration. h.) There are a couple small patches of interior haze. So, with all this information, I finally saw many of the unique features of my flask visibly occur in most all of the real GVIII-2's. Letters a and b were very apparent in a Heckler auction 105, Lot 110 (GVIII-2), as the color also matches up pretty closely.Here, I have combined two pictures. On the left is my flask in hand. On the right, the flask from the Heckler auction. Note the sunburst, especially the left center, and center. In the center, there are tiny little pits and dimples that are noticeable. In both flasks, they match up EXACT (I tried to get close to the same angle held, but it is seen). Secondly, the left of center rays come together a little funny, and this is most visible in both flasks (and other real GVIII-2's). There is a protrusion in the shape of a pizza slice, kinda best way to describe it. It is located at the ray base at center, third and fourth ray to the left (the 11 o'clock position). Here's my summarized assessment of the dang flask.I believe, from the time spent looking at countless fake and real GVIII-2's, that the tiny pits and features on the sunburst are enough to at least merit that the flask in hand could be real, especially since the fakes seem to have very little, if any, detail towards the center of the starburst. Back to the firebrick pieces. This is probably more important than the sunburst, because you see firebrick in antique glass. It's a good sign! I've seen my fair share of repro Clevenger junk, and things made near and at the TOC, and they happen to lack this intrusive nuisance almost every time. The presence of the firebrick makes me optimistic in it not only being hand blown, but also very old. Well, then there's the excess glass on the mold seam sides. Unfortunately, the excess has a little nibbling, but this unique feature is noticeable in many real GVIII-2's. Take a gander, even the Heckler example I referred to exhibits this. This seems to be an indicator of a two-piece mold (please correct me if I'm wrong). I am further assuming that the spout is part of the mold, and the glass finisher tools it to the criteria he sees fit. The position of the base of the spout is nearly identical in all GVIII-2's, however, the overall length, shape, and mid to top width varies due to individual tooling. Then, there's all the high point and base wear. Base wear could be faked, but, high point wear seems to be very unlikely to be faked. The methods of grinding the glass to trick would be consistent and methodical, but alas, it just looks a little worn out like most the other historical flasks in the collection. I could continue, and reiterate almost all the points seen on the GVIII-2, but some will stand firm it is fake, other's will feel that it is real (then there's you who doesn't give a hoot!). Ultimately, I still see absolutely not a single piece of evidence demonstrating that it is a reproduction. Trust me, my mind is open to the possibility of it being fake. Upon first holding it, the thought of it being fake crossed my mind, just because of the improbability. But looking at other examples and studying the bottle closely fortified my conclusion that the flask is indeed real. Until there is more evidence thrown my way,good day!

Very strong case you make, Muddy.

All of the real GVIII-2's have that type of pontil. Hard to say for sure from here but it looks good to me.

This is why I don't collect historic flasks, There are too many fakes and repros out there, BUT this looks good to me, especially if there is firebrick in the glass!! Jeff N Holly would know for sure, they used to come here some times. too bad they are not here to help........Andy

If NCH's example is authentic, I'd say yours is as well. The center ray at the top is slightly lower than the adjacent rays on both examples. The ray at left of center has a small triangular protrusion on both examples. I know it's hard to authenticate from pictures, but with what we've had presented so far, it looks good to me.