Reproduction labels/fakes?

Welcome to our Antique Bottle community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Canadacan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Messages
1,902
Reaction score
950
Points
113
Location
Canada
Back in 2016 I had purchased a Pepsi bottle with a perfect intact label, 12oz size Canadian (post 1941 era) printed in French and on the correct 12oz swirl bottle. The price was really decent and I had no 12oz example in my collection so I figured what the heck just go for it, at worst it's a NOS label placed on a correct bottle.
Fast forward to 2018 of this month and I decided to delve into this label a little more and started to really compare it with my original NOS labels from Starlite bottlers Sask.
And of course my findings were that this label is in fact a copy, at least in my humble opinion, but I do have a bottle that is in very pristine condition!:rolleyes:

So during this research I just discovered another repro label (pre 1941 era) 12oz on green glass with the incorrect Dominion glass date code of 1954!...the internet pictures were enough to reveal the truth, and while my intent is not to harm anyone's reputation I am using the photos for educational purposes. I just cant see how it's possible for labels of this age to have these characteristics...if they were late 1960's labels, yes some have dots but even then they are used systematically for shading purposes. I should add that on some 1940's 50's labels that have a graphic scene such as mountains, it may have dots or cross hatching in shaded areas for detail as well.
On 1980's Crush products with paper labels from Canada I did note they have a dot matrix patterns on them.

If anyone knows any different of the printing process used in the 1940's and can show me that these are legit examples, fill your boots! I have examined all the labels in my collection and have found none exhibit the features of the suspected labels.

NOS on the right...authentic lithograph.

20180410_114517.jpg


Real label...note the clear white field and the absence of dots...also note inside the letters P and E.
20180410_115553.jpg


Repro label- Here you can see the field littered with dots left behind by laser printing or inkjet.

20180410_115159.jpg

Again a close up of the letters on repro label.
20180410_115641.jpg

Real label.
20180410_115749.jpg



This is the earlier style label that is also suspect of being a copy.

Pepsi fake-green glass1.jpg


Date code of 1954....way off for this label!...this bottle helps to confirm my suspicions of a copied label.
Pepsi fake-green glass2.jpg

Pepsi fake-green glass3.jpgPepsi fake-green glass4.jpg


This blown up section of label really reveals the dots on both the field and lettering.
Pepsi fake-green glass4 - Copy.jpg


And this is my sample NOS label.
Real label - Copy - Copy.jpg



This was another green glass from an ended sale, it has a Consumer glass mark on it so I was unable to date the age on it.
The close ups on this one are from the neck tag and the results are the same.

Pepsi fake-green glass sampl 2-1.jpg
pepsi fake-example 2.jpg
Pepsi fake-green glass sampl 2-2.jpg


Repro label
20180412_113619.jpg



My NOS label...photo got a bit fuzzy but you can see the difference.
20180412_114220.jpg
 

CanadianBottles

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2014
Messages
4,640
Reaction score
2,368
Points
113
Oh wow, I didn't think there were Canadian repro Pepsi labels. I'll have to keep a lookout for those if I'm ever buying Pepsi bottles. One other big red flag about those green Pepsi bottles is that those "Bottle Made In Canada" bottles are beer bottles, not soda bottles. They were the generic Quebec beer bottle in the 50s, similar to those long-neck brown bottles that preceded the stubby bottles in BC. I don't think the glass is heavy enough for them to be used for soda, although I'm not 100% certain about that.
 

RCO

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
4,905
Reaction score
2,204
Points
113
Location
Ontario , Canada
as so few paper label bottles survived , it wouldn't surprise me that some of the ones on the market today would be reproductions , if it seems too good to be true it usually is

the odds of a paper label surviving in good condition are relatively slim , I've only came across 1 paper label pepsi and all that was left was the top label , enough to identify it was from a local bottler but none of bottom label was left , I don't have it anymore , traded it a while back


pepsicolaOR.jpg
 

RCO

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
4,905
Reaction score
2,204
Points
113
Location
Ontario , Canada
another paper label bottle I have is for a local ginger ale ( Browns Gravenhurst ) , I'm 100% certain its real even though I did find it at a yard sale in 2015 .

from talking to an older antique store owner about this company , there was many labels saved , you see a lot for sale online or in stores for " browns beverages / muskoka dry ginger ale " they are real , guess what you'd call old new stock but there mostly from the 40's - 60's era

but my bottle is clearly much older , never been able to date it to an exact year but I've assumed 1920's or even a bit older , and true the odds of 1 surviving this long are low , it seems to be the 1% or less that did

also in all my years of collecting I have never once seen anything similar , never seen a label identical to this one or a bottle this size with a similar label from Browns , online or for sale or anywhere

I also don't think you can fake wear and damage , it just looks really old and fragile ( scared to even touch it , its dusty but hard to clean it off ) , and I found it at a yard sale and paid very little for it so not like they were trying to rip me off


brownsgingerale.jpgP4140001.jpg
 
Last edited:

CanadianBottles

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2014
Messages
4,640
Reaction score
2,368
Points
113
Yeah when you see labels like that you can usually be pretty confident that it's authentic. There's a certain type of wear and aging that is very difficult to fake accurately, although some of the more advanced fakers will attempt to artificially age the paper. It looks like someone tried to do that on the green Pepsis, although the paper being white where the paint has flaked off is a big indicator that something isn't right.
 

hemihampton

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
9,088
Reaction score
6,089
Points
113
Oh wow, I didn't think there were Canadian repro Pepsi labels. I'll have to keep a lookout for those if I'm ever buying Pepsi bottles. One other big red flag about those green Pepsi bottles is that those "Bottle Made In Canada" bottles are beer bottles, not soda bottles. They were the generic Quebec beer bottle in the 50s, similar to those long-neck brown bottles that preceded the stubby bottles in BC. I don't think the glass is heavy enough for them to be used for soda, although I'm not 100% certain about that.


Pepsi was know to use actual 12 oz beer bottles. LEON.
 

RCO

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
4,905
Reaction score
2,204
Points
113
Location
Ontario , Canada
Yeah when you see labels like that you can usually be pretty confident that it's authentic. There's a certain type of wear and aging that is very difficult to fake accurately, although some of the more advanced fakers will attempt to artificially age the paper. It looks like someone tried to do that on the green Pepsis, although the paper being white where the paint has flaked off is a big indicator that something isn't right.



couldn't see how the brown's bottle I found could possibly not be authentic , everything seems right about it and just the overall look and feel of label appears very old


is it possible with the pepsi's that some of the labels are " new old stock " and someone attached them to an old pepsi bottle , or are they entirely reproductions and not authentic in any sense ?

but it should be a red flag that so many of the Montreal one's keep coming up for sale as the odd's of so many surviving are low , unless an entire case was kept hidden somewhere dry
 

hemihampton

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
9,088
Reaction score
6,089
Points
113
Example of Pepsi on Beer Bottle. It was for this reason, Pepsi putting there Product in a 12 oz bottle that it was able to outsell Coke for the first time. Since you were now able to get 12 oz for 5 cents compared to Cokes 6 oz for 5 cents. LEON.
pepsipaperlabel.jpg
 

Robby Raccoon

Trash Digger
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
4,318
Reaction score
225
Points
63
Location
Locō movērī
I happen to make a study of printing methods.
Nice research, but you have to be careful: The "dot matrix" is modern if it's very well organised (if you play 'connect the dots', you should get a pattern) versus an earlier, normal (very cheap) lithographed label with fairly irregular dots (most advertising was either lithoed or graven). Now, in the 1940s people were just coming into regular printing with a regular pattern of dots (I find it going back to the 1930s for high-quality prints, but not yet labels). A closer inspection with 10x magnification will tell you if the dot itself is well-organised (suggesting post-1960 if the dot is really 4 dots making up a square, which makes up more of an image) or if it is a single dot and of an irregular shape (suggesting actual lithography, which still continues today but in a modified format: The last of the old-fashioned lithography fell away in the 1970s as lithographic printing machines took over-- the matte-finish sale-ads at some stores are the last of the modern lithographs, but they are done on printers and not by people).
The 1940s was a very modern time for printing (for most technology, really). There are always exceptions, of course: For example, newspapers throughout the 1900s used what is called half-tone printing: It's literally half an image, comprised of regular dots, that uses distance and size of dots in relation to one another in order to make shading in images. I have an original label exhibiting this (postcards often exhibited it, too). That's an exception to this general idea, as little is really a rule: There's often exceptions. But, in your example, the dots over the white do make it clear that it is a printed picture. Your observation on a 1980s label is on par, as this sort of printing is in full swing from then on. If you study modern advertisements, you will see the difference between them and an earlier litho (when using a 10x loupe).
 

Members online

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Threads
83,217
Messages
742,903
Members
24,231
Latest member
rrenzi
Top