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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Pristis View Post

    I wish you would post a profile image of the bottle, a close-up of the lip finish, and an image of the pontil-scar. You are much more likely to get a reliable ID if you will do so. For comparison:

    Attachment 182963 Attachment 182964 Attachment 182965
    I will include more pictures but one distinct difference from all of the above is that the opening had a ground concave inner lip. Other that that it most resembles the 1790-1800 opening, in part because of the narrower sloping top lip

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenaifrank View Post
    What a sweet find. it will have a very special meaning for you.
    It is my only real old bottle, The oyster shells and shelly sand fell off when I was washing it. I kept that way without cleaning it
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-16-2018 at 02:41 PM.

  3. #23
    Thanks, Harry for sharing Dumbrell's definitive referent standard: "A true 'mallet' has a shoulder to base diameter of less than one, A 'squat' cylinder has a ratio of greater than one."

    Of course, I always repose in the wise words of a professor emeritus of Educational Philosophy (Policy Studies) whose presence--when he was able--occasionally graced my doctoral course of study, "The final word on anything is never in." (He happened to be an ordained Methodist minister, but clearly possessed a relativist weltanschauung).

  4. #24
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    I agree that my bottle is a 'squat cylinder' or 'transitional mallet' and not a true Mallet.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-19-2018 at 07:46 AM.

  5. #25
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    The following are more detail on the bottle. It coated and weathered, but definitely very green. Note: unlike the examples in references the inner lip on this bottle is ground concave and the top lip is narrow. The bottle is very lopsided about 1/4 inch.

    The pontil is very small and the bottom is cone shaped.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-20-2018 at 04:21 PM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Bottle Master Harry Pristis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottlehog View Post
    Thanks, Harry for sharing Dumbrell's definitive referent standard: "A true 'mallet' has a shoulder to base diameter of less than one, A 'squat' cylinder has a ratio of greater than one."

    Of course, I always repose in the wise words of a professor emeritus of Educational Philosophy (Policy Studies) whose presence--when he was able--occasionally graced my doctoral course of study, "The final word on anything is never in." (He happened to be an ordained Methodist minister, but clearly possessed a relativist weltanschauung).

    The exchange of technical information depends on widely-accepted definitions. Dumbrell's system for categorizing these early bottles may not be the "final word," but it does nicely fit what we see. His system provides a way to exchange information, to describe the bottles we encounter. No one MUST adopt Dumbrell's system; but, being aware of it will improve communication with other advanced collectors.

    None of these bottles is a "mallet" according to Dumbrell's definition:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    But this one is a mallet:
    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #27
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    More detail on tip of bottle:

    Attachment 182991Attachment 182992Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-21-2018 at 07:05 AM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Pristis View Post
    The exchange of technical information depends on widely-accepted definitions. Dumbrell's system for categorizing these early bottles may not be the "final word," but it does nicely fit what we see. His system provides a way to exchange information, to describe the bottles we encounter. No one MUST adopt Dumbrell's system; but, being aware of it will improve communication with other advanced collectors.

    None of these bottles is a "mallet" according to Dumbrell's definition:
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	182989
    But this one is a mallet:
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	182990
    Good pictures and examples. Of course, mine is not a Mallet. It is a Squat cylinder, or transitional Mallet.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Bottle Master Harry Pristis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    The following are more detail on the bottle. It coated and weathered, but definitely very green. Note unlike the examples in references the inner lip on this bottle is ground concave and the top lip is narrow. The bottle is very lopsided about 1/4 inch.

    The pontil is very small and the bottom is cone shaped.

    • Nice find. I'd say you have an English squat cylinder from around 1800. The pontil scar is called a "sand pontil," though the grit may be bits of ground glass rather than sand. Nothing else on the bottle has been ground except by wave or current action in the water.
    • You can clean up the bottle with an acid bath, common acids like vinegar (slow-working) to muriatic acid (much faster). Expect some glass erosion to remain -- acid can't heal scratches and decomposition (sickness) of the glass.
    • All-in-all, a nice souvenir of your hunt.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Harry Pristis; 05-20-2018 at 11:24 PM.

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