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  1. #1

    Dark Dreen Soda Bottle with Applied Crown Lip

    I found this Dark green (almost black glass) soda or ale bottle with an applied crown lip. I understand the are more common in Europe and Asia. On the base there is the letter "B" and "40" with a dot in the center.

    Does anyone know how old and where this was made, and its possible value; it's in good condition.

    Much Thanks,

    Greg I Bakersfield CA
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Bottle Master
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    These date to 1905-1920 or so and are typically British. I would say effectively no value unfortunately...I dig a lot of them in Galveston and leave them in the hole.

  3. #3
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    Yeah these things are everywhere in BC unfortunately, to the point that it's almost hard to give them away. 3 out of every 4 bottles in your average dump will be one of these slick green ones.

  4. #4
    Thank you, fortunately I only pain $2 for it... oh well live and learn

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bottle Master Harry Pristis's Avatar
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    Crown lips are an American invention, and a North American phenomenon. They are not at all common in Europe or Asia in the early 20th Century.

  6. #6
    DO you mean 'Applied Crown Lips" as I thought are rare in American bottles and common overseas...………. thanks for your response

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Pristis View Post
    Crown lips are an American invention, and a North American phenomenon. They are not at all common in Europe or Asia in the early 20th Century.
    I don't know what years you would define as the early 20th century but they were absolutely being commonly used by European and Asian bottlers, at least for export products, by the 1920s or so. I know this because the dumps of that era in BC are chock full of crown tops from both continents. Extremely crude crown top bottles from China, some so crude it doesn't look like a crown would even be able to stay on the lip, are very common there. Applied lip crown sodas from the UK are not uncommon either, and although bottles from continental Europe are not terribly common here I have seen some which appear to be pretty early. You can also see pictures of bottles found at WWI sites which clearly show crown tops among Codds and blob tops. https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...940005,00.html

  8. #8
    Senior Member Bottle Master Harry Pristis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianBottles View Post
    I don't know what years you would define as the early 20th century but they were absolutely being commonly used by European and Asian bottlers, at least for export products, by the 1920s or so. I know this because the dumps of that era in BC are chock full of crown tops from both continents. Extremely crude crown top bottles from China, some so crude it doesn't look like a crown would even be able to stay on the lip, are very common there. Applied lip crown sodas from the UK are not uncommon either, and although bottles from continental Europe are not terribly common here I have seen some which appear to be pretty early. You can also see pictures of bottles found at WWI sites which clearly show crown tops among Codds and blob tops. https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,...940005,00.html
    Well now, can you please post some images of European and Asian crown lip bottles from your BC dumps. The ynetnews story is mildly interesting, but no crown lip bottles are evident in the images.

    I've hunted bottles in England and France and other parts of the world, and don't recall ever seeing a crown lip. I read the UK and French eBay searches for bottles, and don't recall seeing a crown lip. I confess, my interest is in bottles older than crown lips, but I can't escape exposure to all sorts of local bottles in those eBay searches.

    I have no experience with BC bottle-digging, so educate me.

    William Painter of Baltimore patented the "crown cork" closure in 1891. "The crown cork was not an immediate success because it required a new type of bottle, uniformly made. The initial investment in bottles and bottling apparatus required of bottlers made the transition a slow one. The development of the Owens . . . machine in the early 1900s [1903 patent] hastened the change to crown cork bottles . . . ." [Cecil Munsey in COLLECTING BOTTLES].

    Hand-finished crown cork bottles are evidence that a few glass makers adopted the crown cork bottle BEFORE they had acquired the Owens machine. By 1920, the crown cork stopper had taken over this market.
    Last edited by Harry Pristis; 10-22-2019 at 03:00 PM.

  9. #9
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    They're definitely there in the article, though I admit not immediately obvious.
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    I'm not at home right now so can't get a photo of mine, plus I don't keep many unembossed bottles anyway, but here's a report with images of the sorts of bottles that are frequently found in BC. https://docplayer.net/21349077-Ident...e-bottles.html It says that the crown top was first introduced to Japanese bottling in 1911.

    Here are some typical early UK crown top bottles currently for sale on Ebay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KNOTTY-AS...AAAOSwRu5dqZV5

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-2...4AAOSwL31dJ8LI

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-B...UAAOSwb7pdjxc4

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Old-Heath...cAAOSwgaNcpxuv

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MINT-BOWA...YAAOSw7JxdSJZv
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    Last edited by CanadianBottles; 10-22-2019 at 07:51 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Bottle Master Harry Pristis's Avatar
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    Thank you for the research. I particularly enjoyed reading about the Japanese bottle archaeology. I abstracted a few items from that PDF which address the keys to identifying of some of these bottles. Unembossed bottles might be the most difficult to discriminate from North American bottles.

    According to the PDF, Japanese crown cork bottles date no earlier than 1911.

    You did manage to find a few crown cork bottles on UK eBay; however, the date of manufacture of these bottles is uncertain -- they may postdate 1920 when crown cork bottle were king in the USA and were perhaps a spreading technology.

    I still can't discern a crown cork bottles in the ynetnews images despite your attempt to point out a few.

    From the historical archaeology PDF:
    "...one class receiving only limited attention is Japanese glass beverage bottles. In part, this may be a product of difficulties in distinguishing these vessels from bottles produced in Europe and North America, with which they share common morphology and manufacturing technology. In fact, in mixed assemblages or on sites without obvious Asian components, bottles of Asian origin may easily be confounded with their non-Asian counterparts.


    "Starting in 1911, the company also introduced semi-automatic and automatic bottle-making machines from Europe and America. In that same year, it became the first Japanese company to introduce crown closures on its bottles, and others soon followed. In 1920, Dai Nippon purchased Nippon Glass Kogyo Company, founded in 1916, whose owner was the first to acquire machines and patent rights from the Owens Bottle Machine Company of Toledo, Ohio. By the 1920s, Dai Nippon was using either Graham or Owens machines in all its plants. Bottle sizes were not standardized until 1944, but beer was typically marketed in two sizes, with the larger size modeled after the London Bass Beer Company s ml bottle, and the smaller size of half that volume. Laker notes that Dai Nippon often used different sizes of bottle at different breweries.

    "Many bottles have embossed marks in Japanese or English on the shoulder and/or the body near the base, although marks on some fragmentary Dai Nippon bottles from Walnut Grove and Lion Island are acid etched (Costello and Maniery 1988; Ross 2009)...."

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