10-23-2019, 12:32 PM #11
- Join Date
- May 2014
Attachment 190809Attachment 190810Attachment 190811
Is that better?
Yeah telling the difference between Japanese/Chinese crown tops and European crown tops is difficult, but I think it's only the ABM or later BIM ones which could be confused for North American bottles. For example, I've never seen or heard of a turn-mold crown top of North American manufacture. Generally the only ones I'm confident in stating are Asian are the ones with a distinctive ring around the neck or with Asian embossing, but there are plenty where I would be highly surprised if they came from anywhere else based off their crudeness.
As for European bottles, I've been looking for old ads. Here's a British one from 1915:https://www.illustratedfirstworldwar...e.html#page/31
I haven't had much luck finding others yet, there don't seem to be a lot of old British newspapers and magazines available for free online and I haven't been able to find ads of any sort that depict beer or soda bottles from Continental Europe.
10-23-2019, 01:21 PM #12
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
Read through 19. Crown on the following site:
I have dug a number of them with British glasshouse marks on the base as well as British beer manufacturers embossed on the base. The crown tends to be applied rather than tooled (until the crossover to machine-made bottles).
10-24-2019, 01:12 PM #13
Thanks, NHPharm. With the Japanese post-1911 crown cap bottles and the British applied crown lip imports pre-1920s, the crown top story is a complicated one. Having admitted that, I still maintain that:
Crown lips are an American invention, and a North American phenomenon. They are not at all common in Europe or Asia in the early 20th Century.
10-24-2019, 05:38 PM #14
10-24-2019, 11:35 PM #15
- Join Date
- May 2014
Here's another WWI British ad:
I couldn't access your link because it said I needed to have an account, and when I tried to create one it said I needed to use a non-web based email account, which I don't have. Is it a picture of someone's bottle collection? If that's the case then I have no doubt that many collections don't have any crown tops in them, because the UK collectors don't seem to have much interest in them. I hardly blame them with the age of the bottles they can dig over there.
And to be clear about the ads, it's not like I've been scrolling through ads picturing Codds and internal thread stoppers and am having trouble finding crowns, I've only been able to find two dated 1910s British ads showing any type of soda water bottle and both of them featured crowns. There's no shortage of images of applied lip crown bottles from the UK available online either - the Ebay links were just what I found in the first three pages currently for sale - but I have no way of proving that those were manufactured before 1920. I acknowledge that crowns weren't the most common closure in the UK in the 1910s, but they were by no means a rarity.
Here's another, undated but clearly pretty early:
10-25-2019, 11:15 AM #16
I didn't realize that the forum protected itself like that, sorry about the link. Yes, it is an impressive collection of (relatively) late sodas and mineral waters, mostly Codds and no crown tops. Whether that absence represents collector bias or scarcity, I just don't know (but, it may be some of both).
I do not equate "not common" with "rarity."