1880's violin scroll flask? Salem oak / Jersey devil.

[ROBBYBOBBY64]

Has a very sharp pontil and loads of bubbles. DG is embossed standing for Downer Glass. My question, Is this an original? Was there ever an 1800's flask made like this? Are they all reproductions? Thanks for any information.
ROBBYBOBBY64.

 

[ROBBYBOBBY64]

The seller replied to my question as to it's authenticity. He assured me it is an original and not a reproduction made at a later date. What do you all think? This makes my head hurt. I cannot find any information on this flask. Other than Downer sand and the farm.. cool history there.. the sand of choice in the manufacture of depression glass. Downer sand is the state soil since 2006. I found only two pictures of this bottle on the internet. One was a lime green. The other is the aqua one I got. There was a third cobalt one that was titled as a reproduction. That one still went for about $35. Okay, please be gentle. Lol!
ROBBYBOBBY64.

 

[Mjbottle]

If its a repro they sure went the extra mile to make it so crude, i find most repros tend to have a "cleaner" look to them whereas this one looks very rough in my eyes. im no expert so i cant attest to its authenticity but i will say it looks very nice.

 

[ROBBYBOBBY64]

If its a repro they sure went the extra mile to make it so crude, i find most repros tend to have a "cleaner" look to them whereas this one looks very rough in my eyes. im no expert so i cant attest to its authenticity but i will say it looks very nice.

Thanks Mj. One thing I noticed is it is lighter than any reproduction I have seen. Reproductions that are made of a thicker glass. It is worn in all the right places. Pontil is so sharp it would slice your thumb easily without much effort. I just am at a loss for information. Is this considered a historical flask and if so what GII- number would it be?
Thanks for the help.
ROBBYBOBBY64.

 

[Dogo]

Robby, I think that is a repro. I remember seeing similar bottles years ago, but not that particular one. I wish my memory was better. The clarity and crudeness remind me of the earlier repros. I THINK Downer Glass was a small shop that tried to compete with Clevenger Bros, but did not have the same skill level.

 

[Csa]

Robby - cool bottle regardless. The only angle I can help you with a bit is the jersey devil angle. I'm actually down near where this legend was born this weekend opening up our shore house in LBI, which as you know is right next to the pine barrens where the "Leeds Devil" (aka Jersey Devil) legend was born. When I saw the devil/dragon like image and name on your bottle the first thing that popped into my mind was that was a more "modern" rendition of the Jersey Devil, than was in use in the 1800's. I could be full of it, but not sure exactly when the image and name "Jersey Devil" replaced the Leeds Devil iconography and name. Here is a bit from the Wikipedia listing, and gives you another angle to pursue.

The Leeds Devil[edit]
Regal notes that, by the late 1700s and early 1800s, the "Leeds Devil" had become a legendary monster or ghost story in the southern New Jersey area. Into the early to mid-19th century, stories continued to circulate in southern New Jersey of the Leeds Devil, a "monster wandering the Pine Barrens". An oral tradition of "Leeds Devil" monster/ghost stories subsequently became established in the Pine Barrens area.[3]

Although the "Leeds Devil" legend has apparently existed since the 18th century, Regal states that the more modern depiction of the Jersey Devil, as well as the now pervasive "Jersey Devil" name, first became truly standardized in current form during the early 20th century:

During the pre-Revolutionary period, the Leeds family, who called the Pine Barrens home, soured its relationship with the Quaker majority ... The Quakers saw no hurry to give their former fellow religionist an easy time in circles of gossip. His wives had all died, as had several children. His son Titan stood accused by Benjamin Franklin of being a ghost ... The family crest had winged dragons on it. In a time when thoughts of independence were being born, these issues made the Leeds family political and religious monsters. From all this over time the legend of the Leeds Devil was born. References to the 'Jersey Devil' do not appear in newspapers or other printed material until the twentieth century. The first major flap came in 1909. It is from these sightings that the popular image of the creature—batlike wings, horse head, claws, and general air of a dragon—became standardized.[7]

Indeed, many references to a "Leeds Devil" or "Devil of Leeds" appear in earlier printed material prior to the widespread usage of the "Jersey Devil" name. During 1859, the Atlantic Monthly published an article detailing the Leeds Devil folk tales popular among Pine Barren residents (or "pine rats".)[8][9] A newspaper from 1887 describes sightings of a winged creature, referred to as "the Devil of Leeds", allegedly spotted near the Pine Barrens and well known among the local populace of Burlington County, New Jersey:

 

[ROBBYBOBBY64]

Robby - cool bottle regardless. The only angle I can help you with a bit is the jersey devil angle. I'm actually down near where this legend was born this weekend opening up our shore house in LBI, which as you know is right next to the pine barrens where the "Leeds Devil" (aka Jersey Devil) legend was born. When I saw the devil/dragon like image and name on your bottle the first thing that popped into my mind was that was a more "modern" rendition of the Jersey Devil, than was in use in the 1800's. I could be full of it, but not sure exactly when the image and name "Jersey Devil" replaced the Leeds Devil iconography and name. Here is a bit from the Wikipedia listing, and gives you another angle to pursue.

The Leeds Devil[edit]
Regal notes that, by the late 1700s and early 1800s, the "Leeds Devil" had become a legendary monster or ghost story in the southern New Jersey area. Into the early to mid-19th century, stories continued to circulate in southern New Jersey of the Leeds Devil, a "monster wandering the Pine Barrens". An oral tradition of "Leeds Devil" monster/ghost stories subsequently became established in the Pine Barrens area.[3]

Although the "Leeds Devil" legend has apparently existed since the 18th century, Regal states that the more modern depiction of the Jersey Devil, as well as the now pervasive "Jersey Devil" name, first became truly standardized in current form during the early 20th century:


Indeed, many references to a "Leeds Devil" or "Devil of Leeds" appear in earlier printed material prior to the widespread usage of the "Jersey Devil" name. During 1859, the Atlantic Monthly published an article detailing the Leeds Devil folk tales popular among Pine Barren residents (or "pine rats".)[8][9] A newspaper from 1887 describes sightings of a winged creature, referred to as "the Devil of Leeds", allegedly spotted near the Pine Barrens and well known among the local populace of Burlington County, New Jersey:

Devilishly informative. Thanks
ROBBYBOBBY64.

 

[ROBBYBOBBY64]

Robby, I think that is a repro. I remember seeing similar bottles years ago, but not that particular one. I wish my memory was better. The clarity and crudeness remind me of the earlier repros. I THINK Downer Glass was a small shop that tried to compete with Clevenger Bros, but did not have the same skill level.

I understand. So they never made this flask, kind of like a fantasy flask from a competitor of Clevenger. I have seen the reproduction with the GDW instead of DG embossed and it is placed on the opposite side I believe. Not sure what glass works made this one. Here is one example from Ebay they say this one is from Downer Glass. Mine is 7 ¹/⁴" tall and this cobalt one is 6³/⁴" tall. Glass works mark is in a different spot. The cobalt one looks fake even the lip is different. Mine has black and white chunks of crud in the glass, hard to see in the pictures of the lip there is black crap. So in short, there never was an original. There was a number of glass houses that copied one of Downer Glass Works fantasy bottle. That doesn't seem to add up. If they were that hot a seller wouldn't there be more on the market? Not disagreeing but more logically brainstorming. What do you think?
ROBBYBOBBY64.

Vintage Downer Glass Jersey Devil Salem Oak Blue Flask | eBay

One side has the mythical creature Jersey Devil and the reverse side has a Salem Oak tree. It also has the initials DG (Downer Glass).

www.ebay.com

 

[hemihampton]

I remember seeing a Horror Movie about the Jersey Devil a few years ago. A Weird Movie. Check it out. LEON.

 

[sandchip]

"Repro" is a much misused term. This scroll flask is not a reproduction, but a modern, albeit hand blown with early methods, fantasy bottle. To be a reproduction, there would have to have been an original blown at an earlier time, which there was not. There are reproductions, adaptations and fantasy bottles, all different things and not to be confused or used interchangeably. Just trying to clarify matters here for everyone's benefit.

Robby, you're right when you described it as "a fantasy flask". It is original in the sense that that mold had not been produced before, but not original in the conventional sense of being blown in the early to mid-1800s.