Agana Guam Hobbleskirt Coke

[SODAPOPBOB]

Dave ~

I considered mold codes, but how would that explain your two Oakland bottles, which were both made in the same year (1944) but have different number/letter combos? (Which are 9D and 5K). I can't say for certain, but I seriously doubt that the same plant would use two different molds for the same bottle.

Please keep up the good work. You are probably the only person in the entire world with as much data and devotion who might eventually solve this mystery. Without you and your hands-on examination, we are dead in the water. I have looked high and low on the Internet and your contributions to this subject are the most extensive I know of.

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Just for the record ...

There were three different Owens-Illinois plants in California ...

Plant #20 = Oakland, Ca.
Plant #22 = Tracy/San Francisco, Ca.
Plant #23 = Los Angeles, Ca.

Of the several hundred soda bottles in my collection, I have never seen a brand (Coca Cola - Pepsi - 7up - etc) that was bottled in Oakland that wasn't either made in Oakland itself or one of the other California plants. Thus, if there was a direct connection to Dave's Oakland bottles, and they were made there or elsewhwere in California, then you'd think one of the California plant numbers would be on the bottles somewhere. At present I can find no relationship between 9D-5K and the California plant numbers 20-22-23.

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Reminder ...

Bill Porter's List of Letter/Number Combos:

Petaluma, California ... 2A <(I)> 44 (1944)
Susanville, California .. 3A <(I)> 47 (1947)
Pocatello, Idaho ......... 8A <(I)> 50 (1950)
Reno, Nevada ............ B3 <(I)> 50 (1950)

Even though Bill Porter's list contains post-war bottles, it could be because the American occupation of Japan (and surrounding areas) lasted until September 8, 1951. (Which is just an observation of mine and not conclusive).

Bob

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Japan

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Dave ~

Is it correct that Guam was liberated in 1944? If so, that could in part explain why so many of the bottles you see are dated 1944.

Bob

 

[Bill H]

Bob and Dave,

I'm really pumped now. Thanks to everyone for responding. My case looks almost identical to those cases, but I need to look at mine again. Darn thing is in the basement on a shelf. It does have the stencils on it like the photo, but I need to look at the photo closer. I'll let you know what I find. Yesterday when I looked at my case I wrote the stencil letters and numbers down. they were "WT.43" and "CU 117" The problem is I'm not exactly sure if the first "1" is a "1" on my case, so I need to get the magnifying glass out. I'm going to get my wife's digital camera out and take some photos of the bottles and the case and post them. I'll also check each and every bottle to get the numbers etc. off each. The one thing that was interesting to me is the bottles are in almost pristine condition with no scratches or wear marks. It was like the case arrived hot out of the factory, someone got a Coke, drank it, and gently put the bottle it back in the case. I know there was coke in the bottles because I washed them out. I put 23 years in the navy. We would have just pitched it over the side. Dave, I was stationed in Guam for a year. I'm sorry I didn't go slogging through the jungle now.

 

[Bill H]

Bob,

The Japanese captured Guam on December 10, 1941. We landed on Guam on July 21, 1944, and Guam was officially secured on August 10, 1944. I'm sure Coke flowed onto Guam like a river on August 11. The ships offshore undoubtedly had plenty on hand ready to go.

Bill H

 

[Bill H]

Bob,

I just lugged the case up from the basement, looked at it, and then looked again at the photo you published. If you take a look at the case just to the left of the soldier holding the photo, that's the clearest case end. It says "WT 43" and CU 1 17" There seems to be just a little more space between the two 1s than there is between the 1 and 7. I think if the photo was clearer you might see a decimal point between the two 1s. Maybe not. I have the same 1 spacing on my case, but if there is a decimal point between the two 1s on my case it's covered up by a blemish. I have a decimal point on my case between the "WT" and the "43" I believe the "43" is the gross weight of the case, bottles and soda, 43 pounds. I believe the "1 17" is the cubic feet volume of the case, or 1.17 cubic feet. Another thing to notice in the photograph is each case has a wood lid, probably nailed on The wood lid is probably 1/2 inch thick. My case has no lid, but when a case is opened the lid is undoubtedly just tossed away. The wood on the bottom of my case is 1/2 inch thick.

My case measures 12" wide by 8 1/2" tall by 19 1/4" long. That calculates to a case volume of 1.14 cubic feet. If the half inch for the lid is added, making the height of my case 9" tall, then the cubic volume of the case would be 1.2 cubic feet. 1.17 cubic feet is a happy medium. These cases were undoubtedly made all over the place, and although they were undoubtedly made to a standard specification, there will undoubtedly be a slight difference in the volumes of cases from different manufacturers. I would imagine that if I were to look closely at my case I might be able to find some sort of case manufacturer's mark. I'll try. At some point in time some case measured 1.17 cubic feet, so forever more that was what was stamped on them.

I weighed my case full of empty bottles. The weight was almost 30 pounds. I filled a bottle 24 times and poured it into a bowl, then measured the weight of the water (less the weight of the bowl) and it came to 10 pounds, so the gross weight of my case full of bottled water is 39 pounds. I suppose if one wanted to go nuts then one could find out if Coke weighs more than water, but that's a bit anal. 39 pounds is ball-parkish enough to 43 pounds. Someone probably weighed some case once and found it was 43 pounds, so like the volume that figure was used forever more. Who would ever check other than someone like me? Like the dimensions of the case, manufacturers probably used different wood, different nails or a different number of nails. All that would have an impact on weight.

I noted the handhold openings on my case and the case in the photo are similar but not the same, so maybe some cases had more wood cut out for the handholds than others. Maybe the lids and bottoms on some cases were a single piece of solid wood. The bottom of my case is two board separated by a small space.

What I do know is these wood Coke cases were the mother of all wood cases, solid as a rock and darn near indestructible. The bottle dividers in the case are wood and measure about 3 1/2 inches high and 3/8 inches thick. What I do notice is how heavy these Coke bottles are. It's obvious they were made to last forever and take a ton of abuse. I don't recall seeing another bottle about their size that was more solid and weighed more, but you would be the go-to guy for that stuff. I'll post some pictures of the case as soon as I can, and I'll also check out all the bottles.

Bill

 

[daven2nl]

Just got back from exploring a new area. Ran out of daylight before I was done. This was an area that had ranches before the war, so I was hoping to find some older bottles, perhaps the elusive Agana Guam bottle.

I found bottles alright - thousands of them. All 1944 and later, mostly American beer bottles. Piles of them. Also, dozens and dozens more coke bottles. I found some green ones... embossed... but alas they were all San Francisco from 44 and 45. Nothing prewar.

I got some data until I had to head back. Getting lost in the jungle at night is not an option! I'll try to get back up there this weekend.

here is what they look like in their natural state:

Yes, they are lying on top of the ground like that. Yes, that is a WW2 canteen cup and GI boot heel also in the photo. Cleaning them up to read the data off them is what's difficult.... moss and dirt needs to be rubbed off, and the numbers on most are worn and difficult to read.

-Dave

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Bill ~

Your forensic examination of the wood crate and ability to share your findings with us in a comprehensive manner gets an A++. And because I anticipate the same when you finish examining the bottles, my excitement to hear what you discover is growing by the minute. You may very well have found the mother load of wartime Coca Cola bottles, especially if they are in as good of shape as you have indicated.

~*~

Dave ~

One picture is definitely worth a thousand words. Every time you post one I can almost feel the humidity in the air and smell the stinch of jungle decay. It never ceases to amaze me how many bottles you find laying around. It would be interesting to know what the policy was way-back-when regarding GI's returning their empty bottles. Surely they would not have just tossed away so many hundreds of them had they been instructed to return them. Its almost as if there was no return policy and they intentionally disposed of them for some reason.

Thanks to you both. I look forward to your next replies. Who knows, if enough bottles provide enough information, we just might break the Windtalker's code one of these days.

Bob

 

[hemihampton]

That Agana Coke sounds very Interesting. Let me know if you find any Beer Cans. THANKS, LEON.