Best way to find bottles that were dumped in a deep, muddy river?

[MountainMan304]

So, in my large city there's no way to legally or practically dive into the river which runs through town. On the vast majority of records, all trash was dumped into it prior to city-wide sanitation services which began in 1914. The river itself is 50 feet deep with a swift current, boat traffic, and inches of visibility; on the fire department is allowed to dive in rescue scenarios. Do you think with such a swift current that the bottles may have ended up way downstream in a shallower area? Or do you think they're buried in time underneath the water near the floor where the current may not be so swift? They dredge it every now and then, but that's a restricted, highly regulated thing the city does and the banks of the river were redone with rocks to prevent erosion, which took out the first few feet of the bank. Maybe it's hopeless and just made the bottles more rare, but I figured I'd ask!

 

[DeepSeaDan]

So, in my large city there's no way to legally or practically dive into the river which runs through town. On the vast majority of records, all trash was dumped into it prior to city-wide sanitation services which began in 1914. The river itself is 50 feet deep with a swift current, boat traffic, and inches of visibility; on the fire department is allowed to dive in rescue scenarios. Do you think with such a swift current that the bottles may have ended up way downstream in a shallower area? Or do you think they're buried in time underneath the water near the floor where the current may not be so swift? They dredge it every now and then, but that's a restricted, highly regulated thing the city does and the banks of the river were redone with rocks to prevent erosion, which took out the first few feet of the bank. Maybe it's hopeless and just made the bottles more rare, but I figured I'd ask!

As an inveterate river-diver, I think I can help. The swift current may indeed have pushed bottles "way downstream", but that would depend on a number of factors, such as bottom material consistency, bottom elevation changes, obstructions ( natural and man-made ). These factors would contribute to the amount of bottles relocated & their condition - a gravelly/rocky bottom is hard on glass, causing 'river-rash' & breakage. Whether or not there are 'buried' bottles is, again, mostly a question of the nature of the bottom material & the degree of current at bottom level; the dredging you spoke of could be disastrous for surface & buried bottles and other artifacts. This river, in my estimation, sounds decidedly unpleasant & unsafe. What is the state of the water's cleanliness? What is the average velocity of the current? If the bottom is littered with large obstacles & trash, they could act as serious traps in low / no visibility water with a high velocity bottom current. I've worked as a commercial diver in such conditions & was very glad to have surface-supplied gas supply via umbilical tether, a surface support crew monitoring my communications and a stand-by diver at the ready to assist me if needed. I consider that a safe way to dive such conditions. At 50' you have, by PADI tables, an NDL of :80, but I'd be more concerned about your air consumption rate if things go south for you at depth. Then there is surface craft traffic - how many, how often & how large are the largest potential vessels overhead? Making an emergency ascent into large boat traffic is a recipe for disaster. If I were you, I'd look for safer environments to pursue your bottle diving urges!

 

[MountainMan304]

As an inveterate river-diver, I think I can help. The swift current may indeed have pushed bottles "way downstream", but that would depend on a number of factors, such as bottom material consistency, bottom elevation changes, obstructions ( natural and man-made ). These factors would contribute to the amount of bottles relocated & their condition - a gravelly/rocky bottom is hard on glass, causing 'river-rash' & breakage. Whether or not there are 'buried' bottles is, again, mostly a question of the nature of the bottom material & the degree of current at bottom level; the dredging you spoke of could be disastrous for surface & buried bottles and other artifacts. This river, in my estimation, sounds decidedly unpleasant & unsafe. What is the state of the water's cleanliness? What is the average velocity of the current? If the bottom is littered with large obstacles & trash, they could act as serious traps in low / no visibility water with a high velocity bottom current. I've worked as a commercial diver in such conditions & was very glad to have surface-supplied gas supply via umbilical tether, a surface support crew monitoring my communications and a stand-by diver at the ready to assist me if needed. I consider that a safe way to dive such conditions. At 50' you have, by PADI tables, an NDL of :80, but I'd be more concerned about your air consumption rate if things go south for you at depth. Then there is surface craft traffic - how many, how often & how large are the largest potential vessels overhead? Making an emergency ascent into large boat traffic is a recipe for disaster. If I were you, I'd look for safer environments to pursue your bottle diving urges!

Thanks for the in-depth reply! I wasn't planning on diving it, trust me, I've never gone diving in my life and the idea of diving in this river sends chills up my spine. Its water velocity ranges from 5-0.8 ft/s (from data of the last year). While historically it's a dirty river due to the chemical companies which once dominated the area, it's been cleaned up and now fishing and swimming are popular. My question more pertained to whether I would find the bottles downstream at a shallower point. The river bottom varies in depth and material quite a bit. There are sudden drop offs and many points are more muddy/silty than rocky, though this changes every now and then as you go down the river. A dozen or so miles downstream the river is fairly shallow, with wading possible (but, of course, the current is much greater here due to this shallower depth).

The dredging wasn't and isn't widespread, only happening when regions are having problems with flooding. Looking back on this question, I realized it was kind of stupid as lord only knows where those bottles are now (lost to time, probably).

 

[Fenndango]

Bottles tend to to stay in place even in really fast currents.

I was in N.S. and they banned bottle diving but I visited a bottle shop somewhere there and the guy said people were using underwater cameras and claws or grabbers of some sort and running everything from the boat.

 

[Mailman1960]

So, in my large city there's no way to legally or practically dive into the river which runs through town. On the vast majority of records, all trash was dumped into it prior to city-wide sanitation services which began in 1914. The river itself is 50 feet deep with a swift current, boat traffic, and inches of visibility; on the fire department is allowed to dive in rescue scenarios. Do you think with such a swift current that the bottles may have ended up way downstream in a shallower area? Or do you think they're buried in time underneath the water near the floor where the current may not be so swift? They dredge it every now and then, but that's a restricted, highly regulated thing the city does and the banks of the river were redone with rocks to prevent erosion, which took out the first few feet of the bank. Maybe it's hopeless and just made the bottles more rare, but I figured I'd ask!

 

[Mailman1960]

So, in my large city there's no way to legally or practically dive into the river which runs through town. On the vast majority of records, all trash was dumped into it prior to city-wide sanitation services which began in 1914. The river itself is 50 feet deep with a swift current, boat traffic, and inches of visibility; on the fire department is allowed to dive in rescue scenarios. Do you think with such a swift current that the bottles may have ended up way downstream in a shallower area? Or do you think they're buried in time underneath the water near the floor where the current may not be so swift? They dredge it every now and then, but that's a restricted, highly regulated thing the city does and the banks of the river were redone with rocks to prevent erosion, which took out the first few feet of the bank. Maybe it's hopeless and just made the bottles more rare, but I figured I'd ask!

So, in my large city there's no way to legally or practically dive into the river which runs through town. On the vast majority of records, all trash was dumped into it prior to city-wide sanitation services which began in 1914. The river itself is 50 feet deep with a swift current, boat traffic, and inches of visibility; on the fire department is allowed to dive in rescue scenarios. Do you think with such a swift current that the bottles may have ended up way downstream in a shallower area? Or do you think they're buried in time underneath the water near the floor where the current may not be so swift? They dredge it every now and then, but that's a restricted, highly regulated thing the city does and the banks of the river were redone with rocks to prevent erosion, which took out the first few feet of the bank. Maybe it's hopeless and just made the bottles more rare, but I figured I'd ask!

Shallow areas try some rubber boots steel toes, kick around and a pitch fork and fish net.
After you kick a few bottles you'll no what it feels like.

 

[MountainMan304]

Bottles tend to to stay in place even in really fast currents.

I was in N.S. and they banned bottle diving but I visited a bottle shop somewhere there and the guy said people were using underwater cameras and claws or grabbers of some sort and running everything from the boat.

Shallow areas try some rubber boots steel toes, kick around and a pitch fork and fish net.
After you kick a few bottles you'll no what it feels like.

Thanks guys, that's a good idea. I'm thinking with a few engineering friends and a degree in physics, we can rig something pretty decent up. I'm wondering about the legality and environmental impacts, as we would undoubtedly be seen at the confluence of the two major rivers since it's right downtown. I'll brainstorm and update you guys if I end up making something lol.

 

[MountainMan304]

As an inveterate river-diver, I think I can help. The swift current may indeed have pushed bottles "way downstream", but that would depend on a number of factors, such as bottom material consistency, bottom elevation changes, obstructions ( natural and man-made ). These factors would contribute to the amount of bottles relocated & their condition - a gravelly/rocky bottom is hard on glass, causing 'river-rash' & breakage. Whether or not there are 'buried' bottles is, again, mostly a question of the nature of the bottom material & the degree of current at bottom level; the dredging you spoke of could be disastrous for surface & buried bottles and other artifacts. This river, in my estimation, sounds decidedly unpleasant & unsafe. What is the state of the water's cleanliness? What is the average velocity of the current? If the bottom is littered with large obstacles & trash, they could act as serious traps in low / no visibility water with a high velocity bottom current. I've worked as a commercial diver in such conditions & was very glad to have surface-supplied gas supply via umbilical tether, a surface support crew monitoring my communications and a stand-by diver at the ready to assist me if needed. I consider that a safe way to dive such conditions. At 50' you have, by PADI tables, an NDL of :80, but I'd be more concerned about your air consumption rate if things go south for you at depth. Then there is surface craft traffic - how many, how often & how large are the largest potential vessels overhead? Making an emergency ascent into large boat traffic is a recipe for disaster. If I were you, I'd look for safer environments to pursue your bottle diving urges!

Also, I should have asked: In muddy, silty bottoms, do bottles and other artifacts typically go deep beneath the bed of the river or does a swift current typically prevent them being buried deeply?

 

[DeepSeaDan]

Also, I should have asked: In muddy, silty bottoms, do bottles and other artifacts typically go deep beneath the bed of the river or does a swift current typically prevent them being buried deeply?

Depends on the bottom material's consistency, the depth of the material ( over the hard, natural bottom below the sediment ) & the average rate of flow at the river bottom. If the bottom sediment is deep and the water flow isn't sufficient to substantially move the sediments downstream, then anything with enough weight is going to sink into the sediment. In my experience, the natural state of the river bottom is rarely uniform, and typically changes over time, as varying directions of water current move material around. Most places I dive have a granite bedrock bottom, with a hard clay cap & large amount of sand overburden. Year by year, the sands shift, particularly in shallower water, alternately covering & un-covering areas of the river bottom, thereby revealing items once hidden, or, regrettably, covering over items once visible. Certainly keeps it interesting!

 

[RCO]

So, in my large city there's no way to legally or practically dive into the river which runs through town. On the vast majority of records, all trash was dumped into it prior to city-wide sanitation services which began in 1914. The river itself is 50 feet deep with a swift current, boat traffic, and inches of visibility; on the fire department is allowed to dive in rescue scenarios. Do you think with such a swift current that the bottles may have ended up way downstream in a shallower area? Or do you think they're buried in time underneath the water near the floor where the current may not be so swift? They dredge it every now and then, but that's a restricted, highly regulated thing the city does and the banks of the river were redone with rocks to prevent erosion, which took out the first few feet of the bank. Maybe it's hopeless and just made the bottles more rare, but I figured I'd ask!

there is likely bottles there , not sure you'd ever recover any , unless there is some downstream

i've found bottles in rivers here but there small freshwater rivers and mostly checking near docks or places where people spent time years ago and most of the bottles i find are 40's > 60's era never anything rare