Welcome to our Antique Bottles Community

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Antique Bottle Community on the Web.

Register Log in

Cross & Co. Vancouver B.C. 1894-1963

CanadianBottles

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2014
2,209
48
Oh wow, those are really interesting. I guess they must have still contained Kist, but I've never heard of a company allowing their packaging to be altered to the point of taking their name off of it.
 

RCO

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2012
3,015
48
Ontario , Canada
that kist is unusual , you never see them in Ontario with local bottlers names on them , although there was a lot of companies bottling kist I would think but none have there name on bottle
 

Canadacan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2014
1,476
48
British Columbia
RCO said:
that kist is unusual , you never see them in Ontario with local bottlers names on them , although there was a lot of companies bottling kist I would think but none have there name on bottle
Really?...I would think Ontario would be littered with bottlers names on them. Maybe there was to many bottlers in the region and Kist Canada would not allow bottlers to mark them. An exception was made possibly because Cross & Co. was the exclusive distributor in BC?....that could be why. I will have to check the back next time I see one.
 

mctaggart67

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2010
590
0
I had the opportunity to interview Les Morris of Les Morris Beverages Ltd., Sarnia, Ontario, a licensed bottler of Kist and Vernors, among other brands. Les Morris had a quart ACL Vernors Ginger Ale marked "Les Morris Beverages Ltd., Sarnia, Ontario," an example of which I found in the kitchen of an abandoned farmhouse. I asked him about this marking and he replied that Vernors was not pleased with this localized marking and asked him to pull the bottles. He noted that it was an honest mistake made early in his bottling career, in that the Dominion Glass rep simply asked what he'd like marked on his bottles. Hoping to begin the chase for another local variant, I asked him if there were any Kist bottles marked with "Les Morris Beverages Ltd., Sarnia, Ontario." He told me that he knew there were none ever made because the Kist Canada franchising headquarters in Stratford, Ontario, was quite explicit and exacting that he only use bottles marked "Kist Canada, Stratford, Ontario." Now, I can't offer anything about the case in B.C., but, on account of Kist Canada's enforced policy, it would seem that Kist bottles from Ontario are likely not marked in localized fashion. By the way, the "Les Morris" version of the Vernors is extremely rare. I've only seen two of them in my nearly 35 years of collecting, not surprising since Les Morris was ordered to pull such bottles.
 

Canadacan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2014
1,476
48
British Columbia
That's great information, Thank you for posting. It did also get me wondering about other Western Canadian provinces Kist bottles....the bottles pictured is the generic back...that's what they should be, this one is from Regina, not currently in my collection.Could have been the same thing with Cross & Co. then Dominion asked what they wanted. My example came from the Redcliff Alberta plant.Now you really have me wondering do I have a tough or even rare example?.. only time will tell now. Or did Kist Canada strike a deal with Cross & Co. to get the brand into Vancouver?Very intriguing indeed![8D] Ivan [attachment=Kist Beverage.JPG]
 

Attachments

CanadianBottles

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2014
2,209
48
Hey Mctaggart, do you have any idea what the deal is with those other Kist-type bottles on the ECBW website? Those ones are really intriguing, especially if it was a company that usually prevented bottlers' names on the back.I know I've never heard of another of those Cross bottles, and I got my generic Kist bottle in BC, though I can't guarantee that's where it originated.
 

mctaggart67

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2010
590
0
No idea about the Maedel and Trudel bottles, though they are fascinating specimens. Could be really obvious (and legally precarious) rip-offs, or more likely unauthorized localizations. I know from various sources (archival, newspaper, interviews, etc.) that national brand name franchisors, ranging from the biggies, such as Coca-Cola, Pepsi and Orange Crush, right down to smaller nationals and regionals, such as Vernors, Kist, Country Club, The Pop Shoppe, etc., assumed a business model of unified brand recognition that involved eliminating the advertisement of local bottlers' names on bottles, signs, giveaways, etc. Crates seem to be the exception here. This makes sense given that these franchisors aimed to increase market share and sales through generic (and more cost effective across geography) advertising campaigns. Les Morris also explained to me that another reason for pressure against localization was that the franchisors did not want the buying public to associate local bottlers' names with their brand names in case they wanted a different franchisor to take over production and/or distribution. Cutting out the locals' names made such a transition easier and cleaner. The general rule was product over local maker.
 

SODAPOPBOB

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2010
11,502
0
P.S. I also found a newspaper article stating that G.D. Cross and J.D. Cross "severed" their relationship with Cross & Company in January of 1905 but that the company continued in operation under the original name.
 

Canadacan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2014
1,476
48
British Columbia
Yea that era is a little bit confusing to say the least, but that would be correct that A.C. Murchison was the proprietor of Vancouver Soda Water Works....of course that 1890 add is 4 years prior to Cross coming onto the scene...but I can't find mention of Cross until 1897....and on that ACL they Claim 'Since 1894'And then this : Meikle Bros.Vancouver Soda Water Works 704 Westminster Ave. ,719 Gore Ave. 1886 - 1908 .....you have to wonder about that photograph I posted showing Meikle Bros.Vancouver Soda Water Works....is one of those men out front Cross? Interesting about the newspaper article as well, I did find that the name A.D. Hossack is listed with Cross & Co. as early as 1900-1902, In 1903 for example he is listed as a Manufactures Agent on 900 Pendar St, this is the other address that I could not verify until now!, but Also listed under Cross & Co. (A.D. Hossack) soda water mfgs., 900 Pendar St. A.D. Hossack is listed as an Agent 1894-1907.Cross's name disappears in 1905.
 

Members online

Latest threads

Forum statistics

Threads
74,447
Messages
681,527
Members
15,580
Latest member
cinnor67
Top