Is there an older privy pit in this yard???

[oaks6810]

So I'm visiting relatives were we dug this monster 18'x6' round brick liner a while back. I never had a chance to finish sifting and filling it in. Today Im cleaning and finishing up. The house was built in 1871 but had older structures. 1850's map I have shows a building running the length of the lot in the back were this privy was. Now that would of put this pit inside of that building. Was that something they would of done back then?? These pit was so huge it makes sense it was dug when they built the house in 1871. I did find some pontil stuff towards the bottom. Maybe they were late through aways I don't know? Any thoughts on locating a older pit?

 

[oaks6810]

Pontil shards, looks like a busted eagle and scroll flask? Up date..... Found out from someone at a different site the eagle flask is a Ceredo flask made at Ceredo glass works. I was told they are fairly rare they were only in business for a short time.

 

[oaks6810]

The pit in the picture is in fact the round brick liner. The first two feet is square concrete but then goes to round brick the rest of the way down.

 

[oaks6810]

I don't know if I said that right. Ok the 1850's map I have shows a building that runs the length of the lot. If this privy went back to that time it would of had to of been inside the building. was that something people would of done? I can see it being dipped maybe that's why I found some pontil at the bottom??There were two other smaller building on the lot up until 1871 then all three were torn down and one big house was built and a smaller barn and this privy appears on my 70s sanborns ... My question is there should be an older pit some were right?? Makes no sence to have the privy inside of another building right?? 18x6 pit just seems like something they would of dug for the newer rich peoples house in 71.

 

[zecritr]

I'm no expert what so ever here lolstill it would seem to me that there would be.question what kind of building was the long one? an Inn or a something like?

 

[oaks6810]

I truly don't know always guessed it was a carriage barn or horse stalls because it next to the ally. This might help here is a map of the lot from 1856. (first pic) (second pic) Then here is a map of the same lot from the 1870's. All older buildings gone and a large house was built. You can clearly see the privy in the top right corner. Its the smallest square. Any thought from looking at the maps were they might of had an older one?????

 

[baltbottles]

I would say the square shaded in structure on the earlier map in the left hand corner was an earlier house. The back building is likely a stable or some kind of other animal related structure. I would think the earlier privies for the smaller 1850s house would be up closer to where they are. All i can say is probe the lot more. You may be looking for small woodliners rather then another big brickliner. Chris

 

[oaks6810]

I don't know if this would help but..... It is a corner lot so yes the building to the left is up buy the street. Then also there is a street at the bottom running horizontal, you can sorta see in the 70's sanborn. Also the house that was built in the 1870s has a very small square basement. Looks like when they tore down and rebuilt they just used the basement from the building in the center of the 1856 map. The basement is in the exact same spot as were that building sat. So I was always thinking maybe that was a house and maybe the building to the left was a store or shop or something? I don't know. One thing I do know is that this town reached its max population in the 1840's, more people more dwellings more privies. Anyway I will sure try and probe for a while and see if I cant locate anything. thanks for the help!

 

[cannibalfromhannibal]

OK, well here goes my thoughts.....It is possible the large structure on the left in the old map was a duplex and the smaller one was another house facing the street in that direction. I would then suspect the later house was built possibly over one or two privies to the duplex and possibly over one for the smaller house. You make no mention the '71 house is gone or still there. If gone, I would focus on the area directly behind what looks like the duplex between the smaller structure, since there were no structures built on that area and a prime area for a privy or two. If still there, I would try to check the crawl space if there is one in that area mentioned and scratch around for evidence of a pit. If no luck, I would then search the area to the north (top) area from the duplex along the property line. Then I would try the area all around the early structure we can label the barn by the alley. On lots that old, I eventually probe every possible square foot I can, as they sometimes are found in head scratching spots. It would help to know the age of what you DID find in the monster hole for age ideas. I agree it is unlikely the privy was inside, but keep in mind that any map without some follow-up like the Sanborn's provide is a short glimpse or snapshot of time. That barn could have been torn down or burned the day after the map was made, and they were unlikely to redo the entire map for an old barn. Around here, the older lots primarily had one privy they reused forever and just kept cleaning out. Once in a while I find 2 or rarely 3 on one lot for one house. The stone liners seem to be the older pits here, though last summer I dug a number of stone liners that only had 90's stuff with no evidence (frags) of being cleaned of pontil age stuff, even though the houses were on the 1854 map. I kept at it and in line with the stone liner I found 2 brick liners on the same lot and both were pontil aged. Also were all on the long side of the property line. Generally, if there is one large privy then there are no others around here. That doesn't rule out smaller ones for other houses. If there hadn't been any pontiled age frags, I would have definitely said absolutely there had to be another pit somewhere. I would have to think/hope there would be likely a smaller one somewhere. The Ceredo embossed eagle shard appears to only be on the reverse sides of the "For Pikes Peak" flasks .... Hope this helps....Jack

 

[oaks6810]

Thanks a lot you really shared some good insight!! First of yes the home built in 71 is still here exactly as its shown on the sanborn. No additions nothing. I can get into the crawl space and try and search the area that would of been between the duplex and house. As for the area towards the barn. We probe every were very thoroughly in that back area about every foot or so. I even found the foundation for the larger barn on the 54 map. I like your idea looking towards the front or the area to the left side of the map between were the buildings were. Ok about the glass that came out of the 18 footer. Roughly first 8 or 10 foot was fill lots of brick and large stone with traces of 1930-20's glass. Use layer was mainly 1900-70's when the house was built. Mainly 70's-80's. Towards the bottom we did find some pontil. Couple graphite pontil soda, pontil 8 sided ink . I did cross our mind it had been dipped. But again in my opinion it sorta fell in line. Nothing that screamed 1850's or earlier,, 60's yeah. Other then a few shards.. in my pic.