Possibly one of the earliest John Ryan bottles?

[Digswithstick]

Wow that sucks Tim ! Been reading about acid etching glass ,going to try it on it slicks to make for gifts (will only do personalizing) saw a forum post on "100 uses for bottles "or something .Wonder if it was acid etched and tumbled ,if so could have been done in 80' s, one way it is done is with adhesive stencils (fits the detective work by sharp folks here) and brushing on acid.Strange that more info or bottles is not available ,maybe the faker only did a few to avoid getting caught .Thanks for the wake up call !

 

[Plumbata]

The small chips all over the raised parts of the area in question point to mechanical alteration, not chemical, and the depth is quite significant; it would take a long time to acid etch that with such relative regularity. Your excellent suggestion bring up the good subject of the fantasy seltzer bottles, which have probably caused many 10s of thousands in damage to the hobby. Some people are schmucks. []

 

[Sodasandbeers]

I hope this is just an old example of a faked bottle and that someone is not starting up this fraud again. A number of "unique" bottles from Chester County and the Coal Regions of Pennsylvania turned up about 12 to 15 years ago with this same technique. Collects in these areas were aggressive and to acquire an unlisted example was quite a coup.

These fakes are identifiable in that the letters are usually too wide and they line up with the surface of the bottle. The area in the plate was eaten away and has the tell tale pebbled effect behind the lettering. Truly embossed bottles' embossing is raised above the surface of the bottle. I had two friends burned by these fakes and one got his money back. The other could not accept it was a fake and still has it in his collection.

 

[bottlekid76]

Thanks for the input guys. It does appear that the lettering is the same height of the surface of the bottle Tod. Looking more and more like I was indeed taken by it. When Chris posted that info my heart sank, but i'd much rather know the truth than for me to be unaware or ignorant and showing it to friends as genuine. I gave what I thought was a decent price for it having the bruise, and a Ryan i'd sure never seen before. I didn't get slammed terribly on it, but enough no one for sure would want to lose out on buying a bottle that wasn't the real deal. I guess I could chalk it up to a pretty bad night at the casino lol

~Tim

 

[CALDIGR2]

My first observation of the lettering style told me that something was seriously wrong with. Thanks for confirming my suspicions, but I feel sadness for your being taken by this obvious thief. Old bottles, especially IP sodas, DO NOT have clean, squared off letters. It was far too obvious to me, but for the seller to pass it on to you as "the real deal" in unconscionable. He knew exactly what he was doing and should be held accountable for his actions.

 

[surfaceone]

Hello Tim,

Big bummer, man! I am sorry if it is indeed a fake. I am constantly amazed at the level of knowledge, keen eyes, and expert institutional memory on this Forum.

It certainly looks unlike the Ryans I've seen photos of.

"JOHN RYAN / 1867 / ATLANTA / GA
Ryan only had a branch in Atlanta during 1867, and very few bottles were produced."

"JOHN RYAN / EXCELSIOR MINERAL WATER / SAVANNAH, GA. / 1859
Rare cobalt Ryan with tent style top (usually come with blob style top)." Both from Reggie's Soda Hall of Fame.

You might contact Charles Matzen or Bill Baab, or, perhaps Russ Butler, author of, “Savannah Sodas.â€

"7" amber blob soda embossed "JOHN RYAN / 1866 / SAVANNAH, GA. / CIDER" sold $255 on eBay." From.

From.

 

[coboltmoon]

Thank you very much for sharing this bottle. I have never seen such good photos of this type of alteration. I would never have known it or another like it was not original.

It is easier to spot a fake if you know they have reproduced/altered an item and what to look for to tell the difference from a real one.

 

[glass man]

BILL BAAB IS DEF. THE MAN TO GO TO!! VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT SHOUTHERN BOTTLES..PLUS HE HAS A NET WORK OF FRIENDS THAT IF HE DID NOT HAPPEN TO KNOW THEY WOULD! HE IS A VERY KIND HELPFUL PERSON AND I AM SURE HE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THE STORY....I SURE HOPE IT DOES TURN OUT TIO BE FOR REAL....THERE ARE SOME JOHN RYAN PHILIDEPIA BOTTLES...SAME GUY...DIFFERENT MARKET...JAMIE

 

[Stardust]

How very sad, your loss taught us all a valuable lesson ...... *

 

[Jim]

Sorry to hear about this, Tim. The embossing font caught my eye right away as looking very modern. I was 99% sure that something was not right.

I had not heard anything about these altered early sodas before. Being a collector of early central PA bottles, I'm very glad that this was brought up. If the bottle you bought was "embossed" with an obscure name and "LEWISTOWN, PA", and offered to me, it could have gotten ugly. While I would have been extremely suspicious of the bottle, there is the chance that the one-in-a-thousand "What if it really is..." could have gotten the better of me and cost me a lot of cash. That would have been bad for me, and REALLY bad for the seller, I would make sure of that.

As a collector of some very rare PA sodas, I would like to thank Chris and Tod for mentioning the other bottles that were altered in this method. It would be easy for many serious collectors of rare local bottles to get burned by these things. If any of these were "made" for towns in my collecting area, I will now know with 100% certainty when I see one, and will have no reservations about making it very publicly known for what it is. Thank you guys very much. ~Jim