reproduction old sachems

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cowseatmaize

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I have said this before, but it is the collector's market that will screw you guys, not reenactors. The Old Sachems sold very weakly until about two months ago when someone in the collector's market found them on my site, and I darn near sold out, and that is only about 30 pcs.
ORIGINAL: histcloth

I have said this before, but it is the collector's market that will screw you guys, not reenactors. The Old Sachems sold very weakly until about two months ago when someone in the collector's market found them on my site, and I darn near sold out, and that is only about 30 pcs.

Reenactors just want something to put their rations in. When I get a request to make a rarer glass item in an oddball color, it is a red flag to me, and I won't do it. There is no doubt what that is going to be used for. I HAVE sold the mold proofs of the items in clear glass, which are kind of neat, ie, drake's in clear glass.

I would love to have done them all, including Rohrback's and Kelly's Bitters or Sacramento Eagle sodas, but it would ultimately be a waste of time. The people that I am trying to reach don't know enough. If the collecting world was resting on standard whiskey bottles, hair oil bottles and the standard mustards then it will be a world of hurt.
I agree, it's not the reenactors. It's the scammer buyers that will push them on the market as authentic.
The only thing is your in the middle of perpetuating a much larger problem. Much beyond your sales.
 

histcloth

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I would also say, that by ME being here, I can help you identify what I have produced. If you have any doubts, I can easily post a reply. I know my glass pieces like I know my kids. I have tried to be as visible and above board as possible. If you are going to be nasty to me, then you will be forced to figure it out for yourselves.

You really should worry about those people that you CAN'T see. Someone doing them from the shadows is a lethal threat to your hobby, because they are intending to sell to your marketplace.

Like I said, going forward, I expect to keep on producing the more generic pieces. I couldn't give a Joshua Wright pickle jar away, until a young couple came along and bought some as centerpieces for their wedding. As I said, the REALLY sophisticated glassware is lost on the reenactors.

I am glad that there are sites showing the differences. At some point in your collecting careers you are going to have to become knowledgeable. I didn't offer this line as a way of hurting you, but you would probably all agree of the importance of cathedral bottles to the Civil War period?
 

diggerdirect

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....You have a right to sell your wares but most of us are concerned about later results...
The legal right to sell but ethically I believe it's subject to scrutiny. I mean seriously, what would it have took to include an identifying mark on the base of these repops? Not to mention the boost to perceived integrity of your business?

Presumably you will all engrave something on the base of the bottle to let your fellow collectors know that they are reproductions.
And no doubt some collectors already have, and some will, but in my opinion this delegation of responsibility using auspices of assumptions and legality actually classifies your company into the league of dark alley shysters by a good percentage of the very consumer target group you claim to be catering to.

In truth, I did tell you a long time ago that I was offering these bottles, and gave more than fair warning. I said then, as I do now, that if these fool a collector, then you shouldn't be collecting.
So you gave the collecting community 'fair warning' that very well made, unmarked fakes would be fourth coming onto the market? I wonder just how many got that memo? And one wonders, just what constitutes 'fair warning' on an item that 'presumably' will be around for centuries to come, long after all 'fair warnings' & memos are gone?
And what a short sighted business model, to alienate a very large percentage of your potential customer base right from the start, good luck with that.

On the up side (if you can call it that), it is individuals & companies like this that will ultimately benefit this hobby once reports start coming in from collectors & investors that have been scammed by such products (through no fault of the manufacturer, of course, because it was legal), and will eventually result in group action demanding revisions to the U.S. Hobby Protection Act to include regulations on more items outside of numismatics.

Its becoming a fine line these days as to just what to call these, a Reproduction? Replica? Fake? or Forgery?. Hopefully soon some laws will be passed to classify these type items to what they truly are & force them to be easily identifiable to all. Its a shame really, I've not seen one of these bottles yet but from all reports they are very well made. But I for one will never know.

Just my opinion,

Al
 

cowseatmaize

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You're still thinking in the present, I'm concerned about the future.
Are you sending/buying the stuff to HERE at Rockwood of Shanghai?
 

cowseatmaize

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The Old Sachems sold very weakly until about two months ago when someone in the collector's market found them on my site, and I darn near sold out, and that is only about 30 pcs.
That's a big problem with this site being an open one to search engines, a good portion of those may me the scammers I mentioned and found the site here.[:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:][:mad:]
We may be giving you free publicity, not that that's bad but maybe dropping the subject might be wise. At least from a bottle enthusiast point of view.
 

histcloth

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Shanghai bottle is DEFINITELY not mine...so there is your problem. They certainly don't care what you think, and if I was a betting man, not everything in their line is on that site.

For the sake of arguement, if I was to mark every piece, you still have to deal with what they are producing. And then their competitor, and their competitor's competitor.

My point is that you HAVE to become more sophisticated as collectors. You may not want to hear it, but the old days are over. The days of collecting by pure investment are over.

The World War II German collecting field was and still is much more rife with fakes than glassware. Pardon my french, but they got their shit together, and pretty much nail the fakes.

You need to be on top of your game. And to Al especially, I am NOT taking responsibility for your hobby. It is a particular pet peeve of mine that people collect things without have any knowledge WHATSOEVER of what they collect.

If there is a revision to the hobby act, I will comply with it.
 

GuntherHess

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I did tell you a long time ago that I was offering these bottles, and gave more than fair warning.

Like saying "I poisoned your well but I did warn you so its ok" Give me a break. This guy cant be reasoned with. He will only do the right thing when the law forces him to.
Its not the experienced collectors getting burned by this crap , its the novices that ripped off and decide this hobby has been destroyed by fakes just like Civil War relics , Sports collectibles, and other hobbies have been.
 

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