Understanding/identifying what a pontil scar is.

[Bottle 2 Rocks]

YES, Post #1 & #2 is this post link below. Mostly referring to post #2 but what about #1?

(116) Bizarre base marking/pontil combo on import black glass | Antique Bottles, Glass, Jars Online Community (antique-bottles.net)

The x was a strengthening mark for the base and it looks as if pic one is a sand chip type pontil mark and pic 2 is an open pontil with the x embossed as a part of the mold. I was referring to ABM bottles with letters and numbers embossed.
Just trying to stick with the basics here for the new collectors and not be too confusing.

 

[Csa]

okay, I'll read that again. Thought they were related topics. I guess the Owens discussion is many years later to begin with so not pertinent to this thread.

 

[hemihampton]

Updating this info for new collectors is a continous ongoing thing as there are always new collectors coming in here. this type of info should be sticked to stay at the top for any newbie norman new guy to read. I've been in here since 2006 & answered these same questions many times in the past.

 

[Bottle 2 Rocks]

okay, I'll read that again. Thought they were related topics. I guess the Owens discussion is many years later to begin with so not pertinent to this thread.

Well the reason I wrote this thread is because i'm seeing a lot of collectors that have found bottles that were made in automatic bottle machines to include abm Owens bottles and see that funny scar/excess wisp of glass in a somewhat circular shape think they have a pontiled bottle in hand and really they don't. So it is pertinent to this thread somewhat.
The best way to learn a lot about bottles is to go to one of your local bottle shows and a ton of questions will be answered by many knowledgeable collectors when you can see it in your hands up close.

 

[Csa]

Thanks. Agree, maybe a sticky note category called “Newbie News”.
I’ve read a lot since I started and never thought I had a true pontil. Probably in part since my bottle dump only goes back to 1900 or so. I’ll keep looking though.

 

[Harry Pristis]

Would/Could a open pontil have a big X in the middle of the open pontil hole?

Olive Jones (1971) answers this question:
"The [blow pipe] pontil mark is a distinct ring-shaped mark about the same diameter as the neck (Toulouse 1968:139). When the blowpipe was removed from the base it either tore glass out with it or left extra glass behind. As the only area of contact is the ring of glass, any mold lines, embossed markings, and distinctive surface textures remain as undisturbed inside the ring as they do outside (Figure 14) (Toulouse 1968 : 139). "
Figure 14 from Toulouse is the base of a case bottle with a "cross" exposed behind a blow pipe pontil scar, much like this one:

 

[Harry Pristis]

The x was a strengthening mark for the base

That's an interesting idea . . . Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

 

[hemihampton]

Harry, That Pic confuses me, if it was blown in a mold & had mold lines then wouldn't there have to be a empty blank space in the mold for the blow pipe? wouldn't that empty blank space in mold be in the middle of bottom? if not how does the glass get into the mold?

 

[Harry Pristis]

If I understand your question, the image is of a case bottle blown in a dip mold. The formed bottle body is removed from the mold while still on the blow pipe. Then a second blow pipe, used as a punty, is attached to the bottom of the bottle. The bottle is then "wetted off" from the first blow pipe so that the mouth can be finished.

 

[Bottle 2 Rocks]

That's an interesting idea . . . Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

It could also be an identifying mark wanted bt

That's an interesting idea . . . Do you have any evidence for this assertion?

IT could simply be a bottle makers mark id for that particular glasshouse but it could also strengthen the base some, is there a basis to say it doesn't.