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willong

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I believe I have one of these bots as well. If I had to render a guess--wedding/party favor. Maybe "chapponya." :D

Hey, Will, et al, I believe metal workers of the same time period, used a similar approach.-- The "lost wax process" when making the mold for statues, etc.
Don't know when I'll have the time to dig through my old bottle books to find it--the "text string search" function is really clunky on printed volumes--but I'm pretty sure that at least one of them made reference to such etching-embellished, turn-mold bottles being manufactured to market ostensibly premium wines and/or liquor. Champagne was a popular drink in the late 19th century from what I've read--I think even Mark Twain got a little snooty about it.

That ancient art of lost wax casting is another one of those crafts that I'll never live long enough to try my hand at; but I've always been intrigued by the process. Perfecting application of the lost wax process to investment casting firearms made Sturm, Ruger and Company rich. I still preferred machined-from-forgings Smith & Wesson revolvers and pistols, though I sold both brands (I owned and operated a firearms and archery tackle shop for ten years until the logging industry, which employed most of my customers on the Olympic Peninsula, crapped out in the 1980's as a result of Spotted Owl protections).
 
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CanadianBottles

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Thanks for digging those photos up. Attractive bottles all.

I can't read the Argentine labeling, but the two American examples seem to confirm my speculation that embossed seltzer bottles would have been ordered by seltzer water distributors rather than hotels, saloons and such. I suppose if any hotels owned enough locations approaching anything like the numbers owned by today's chains, then one might find seltzer bottles embossed "The Ritz" or something similar; but I'm really not expecting that to be the case. For now, I'm clinging to my theory that it's all about the numbers required to justify the expense of a mold.

Hmm, if I had a nice home bar I would maybe have to violate my "dig or trade only" bottle acquisition policy. Break down and actually buy an antique seltzer bottle--one like the plain, dark green example in the foreground--then horrify purists, altering it by etching my monogram into its surface!
Right sorry, I had misunderstood your question. I don't remember ever seeing a marked seltzer from a hotel. Are those something you get in the US? Strangely, the only example I know of a hotel bottle from North America is actually a transferware ginger beer bottle. I have a hard time imagining that those could have been worth the cost to have made, but it's possible that wasn't the point. The Chateau Laurier is one of the fanciest hotels in Canada. It was (and maybe still is) the place where heads of state would stay when visiting Ottawa, and was sometimes home to the prime minister. Having their own exclusive ginger beer might have been intended as a demonstration of how high class the establishment was, rather than something intended to be profitable in and of itself.
1666278915438.png
 

Len

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Don't know when I'll have the time to dig through my old bottle books to find it--the "text string search" function is really clunky on printed volumes--but I'm pretty sure that at least one of them made reference to such etching-embellished, turn-mold bottles being manufactured to market ostensibly premium wines and/or liquor. Champagne was a popular drink in the late 19th century from what I've read--I think even Mark Twain got a little snooty about it.

That ancient art of lost wax casting is another one of those crafts that I'll never live long enough to try my hand at; but I've always been intrigued by the process. Perfecting application of the lost wax process to investment casting firearms made Sturm, Ruger and Company rich. I still preferred machined-from-forgings Smith & Wesson revolvers and pistols, though I sold both brands (I owned and operated a firearms and archery tackle shop for ten years until the logging industry, which employed most of my customers on the Olympic Peninsula, crapped out in the 1980's as a result of Spotted Owl protections).
Will, you are an interesting man: Very knowledgeable in many fields, former businessman, helpful, and polite enough to dig a trench grave for the bottles you shoot so that others don't step on the broken glass. Etc. Etc. ..Sorry to hear about your store. --How is the Spotted Owl doing today?.. I had a shop in Springfield in the '70s. Sometimes a couple of S &W brass big shots came in. One gave me a gun oil bottle--one of the company's first-- about 7", clear corker, with their monogram embossment. Really not much to look at but now such items trigger memories of times + places that even Mark Twain, may only have ricocheted past by. :cool: ..(Btw, Twain's house in Hartford, Conn. has paranormal groups go through. Reports of the smell of cigar smoke, and a evp of Twain saying his wife wasn't there, but "at their other home in Elmira,"[NY] among other things, have been heard.o_O Happy Bottleween!)
 

willong

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Right sorry, I had misunderstood your question. I don't remember ever seeing a marked seltzer from a hotel. Are those something you get in the US? Strangely, the only example I know of a hotel bottle from North America is actually a transferware ginger beer bottle. I have a hard time imagining that those could have been worth the cost to have made, but it's possible that wasn't the point. The Chateau Laurier is one of the fanciest hotels in Canada. It was (and maybe still is) the place where heads of state would stay when visiting Ottawa, and was sometimes home to the prime minister. Having their own exclusive ginger beer might have been intended as a demonstration of how high class the establishment was, rather than something intended to be profitable in and of itself.
CanadianBottles,

I have to admit to a old fart's brain fart. I haven't dug out my old bottle books to thumb through those pages, but I could find only one example of a hotel-marked seltzer bottle online. Assuming that there would be photos online if a substantial number of such existed, I can only conclude that my memory failed me. I might have formed that opinion by observing photos of seltzer bottles marked with a wide variety of relatively small town locations without paying attention to the additional etched information conveying such details as "bottling works" or some variant of distributing, etc.

Some, like the Canadian and British bottles (below) currently on eBay, only displayed a company name and location without mentioning bottling, sodas, distributing or the like.
1666488256240.png
1666488431240.png


Others featured product or company names that included "spring," "springs" or "spring water."

1666489909552.png


So, I'll make a weak excuse that my mental association of springs and spring water with resorts (two historical examples, one of which still operates but no longer sells bottled water like they did in the late 19th century, are within 30 miles of my location*) might have skewed my memory in the direction resort hotels, bars and etc.

*: https://www.historylink.org/File/7591

Unfortunately, that's the best excuse I can muster. At least I copped (sorta) to being mistaken about etched seltzer bottles marked with hospitality establishment names. Rest assured that I'll check back in with an edit should I stumble upon examples among the pages of my old bottle books.

It's no redemption, but I did locate one "Hotel" marked seltzer bottle online, though it is not an etched example:

1666490498115.png
 

willong

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Will, you are an interesting man: Very knowledgeable in many fields, former businessman, helpful, and polite enough to dig a trench grave for the bottles you shoot so that others don't step on the broken glass. Etc. Etc. ..Sorry to hear about your store. --How is the Spotted Owl doing today?.. I had a shop in Springfield in the '70s. Sometimes a couple of S &W brass big shots came in. One gave me a gun oil bottle--one of the company's first-- about 7", clear corker, with their monogram embossment. Really not much to look at but now such items trigger memories of times + places that even Mark Twain, may only have ricocheted past by. :cool: ..(Btw, Twain's house in Hartford, Conn. has paranormal groups go through. Reports of the smell of cigar smoke, and a evp of Twain saying his wife wasn't there, but "at their other home in Elmira,"[NY] among other things, have been heard.o_O Happy Bottleween!)
Thanks Len,

I hadn't updated myself on status of Spotted owl, recently.

So, I just looked online a moment ago at: https://www.opb.org/article/2020/12/15/northern-spotted-owl-endangered-species-act/

A 2020 article there mentions "continued decline" in the following statement:

The agency said the species’ continued decline warrants a reclassification from “threatened” to “endangered’' but it elected against taking that step because it considers other listed species to be higher priorities. According to the service, the decision was based on a scientific report that was peer-reviewed by academic and industry experts. The service said a status change would not result in any additional regulatory restrictions under the Endangered Species Act — nor would it impact the actions taken to conserve the species.

After logging moratoriums on Olympic Peninsula federal lands were precipitated by the owl's plight, the Marbled Murrelet was also listed as threatened under the federal Endangered Species Act. During their nesting season, the murrelets also use old growth forests.

I didn't broadcast my feelings to all my customers, but the ones I considered friends knew that I harbored no resentment over the closures as long as human entry into the forests was allowed for recreational purposes. Frankly, I only wished greater, broader stretches of old growth forests had been preserved by protection, preferably Wilderness Area status, long before either bird's existence was threatened. I did have selfish reasons for feeling that way.

I was still in my thirties at the time, and my favorite method of hunting Roosevelt elk was to track and stalk the animals in old growth. Unfortunately, by the time I discovered that joyous challenge, the old growth forests outside of Olympic National Park (closed to hunting) were reduced to small strips and blocks checker-boarded by clearcuts and "reprod doghair" (densely planted, young conifer reproduction plots consisting primarily of Douglas fir). The hunting was still fun; but it could be exceedingly frustrating to close within bow-shot distance given the tendency of trailed elk to cross roads and clearcuts where other hunters could spot them, or the elk habit of fleeing into the refuge of the park as soon as they sensed any hunting pressure.

Was that a firearms shop that you had in the 1970's? That was a nice gift from the S&W guys. I just viewed some online and I like that monogram look. I have a either a Hoppe's or Marble's nitro solvent bottle that I dug. I am pretty sure that I also dug another gun care product, gun oil I believe, though I can't recall what brand. Tooled lip as I recall, both bottles are pretty pedestrian, but suit my interests well.

When I accompanied my parents to visit my mom's side of the family in Germany in 1964, we did a little driving tour of Europe. Many sights and experiences have stuck with me. One of the most prominent memories is a tour of the Krieghoff factory in Ulm conducted by Herr Krieghoff himself! I was pretty interested in art at the time, as well as firearms and hunting, and the highlight of the tour for me was watching the engravers working under magnifying lenses at their benches. The expression one was executing in the face of a Hirsch stag--the entire animal was probably less than 30mm in length--was phenomenal! I also recall that some of the engravers had lightning-stoppered bottles of beer sitting on their workbench. We also visited the Anschütz and Walther firms, but did not receive such royal reception as extended by Krieghoff. I wish that I had been wealthy enough at some point in my life to have purchased a fine Krieghoff double or drilling--I almost feel a little guilty for our working class family having received such hospitality.
 

CanadianBottles

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CanadianBottles,

I have to admit to a old fart's brain fart. I haven't dug out my old bottle books to thumb through those pages, but I could find only one example of a hotel-marked seltzer bottle online. Assuming that there would be photos online if a substantial number of such existed, I can only conclude that my memory failed me. I might have formed that opinion by observing photos of seltzer bottles marked with a wide variety of relatively small town locations without paying attention to the additional etched information conveying such details as "bottling works" or some variant of distributing, etc.

Some, like the Canadian and British bottles (below) currently on eBay, only displayed a company name and location without mentioning bottling, sodas, distributing or the like.
View attachment 240994
View attachment 240995

Others featured product or company names that included "spring," "springs" or "spring water."

View attachment 241001

So, I'll make a weak excuse that my mental association of springs and spring water with resorts (two historical examples, one of which still operates but no longer sells bottled water like they did in the late 19th century, are within 30 miles of my location*) might have skewed my memory in the direction resort hotels, bars and etc.

*: https://www.historylink.org/File/7591

Unfortunately, that's the best excuse I can muster. At least I copped (sorta) to being mistaken about etched seltzer bottles marked with hospitality establishment names. Rest assured that I'll check back in with an edit should I stumble upon examples among the pages of my old bottle books.

It's no redemption, but I did locate one "Hotel" marked seltzer bottle online, though it is not an etched example:

View attachment 241004
No worries about that at all, there probably are a decent number out there from springs which also had associated resorts/hotels. I quite like the graphics on that Hull Hotels seltzer, it's too bad we don't get more ACL seltzers here (I'm not sure we have any - maybe a couple from Toronto).
 

Len

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Thanks Len,

I hadn't updated myself on status of Spotted owl, recently.

So, I just looked online a moment ago at: https://www.opb.org/article/2020/12/15/northern-spotted-owl-endangered-species-act/

A 2020 article there mentions "continued decline" in the following statement:

The agency said the species’ continued decline warrants a reclassification from “threatened” to “endangered’' but it elected against taking that step because it considers other listed species to be higher priorities. According to the service, the decision was based on a scientific report that was peer-reviewed by academic and industry experts. The service said a status change would not result in any additional regulatory restrictions under the Endangered Species Act — nor would it impact the actions taken to conserve the species.

After logging moratoriums on Olympic Peninsula federal lands were precipitated by the owl's plight, the Marbled Murrelet was also listed as threatened under the federal Endangered Species Act. During their nesting season, the murrelets also use old growth forests.

I didn't broadcast my feelings to all my customers, but the ones I considered friends knew that I harbored no resentment over the closures as long as human entry into the forests was allowed for recreational purposes. Frankly, I only wished greater, broader stretches of old growth forests had been preserved by protection, preferably Wilderness Area status, long before either bird's existence was threatened. I did have selfish reasons for feeling that way.

I was still in my thirties at the time, and my favorite method of hunting Roosevelt elk was to track and stalk the animals in old growth. Unfortunately, by the time I discovered that joyous challenge, the old growth forests outside of Olympic National Park (closed to hunting) were reduced to small strips and blocks checker-boarded by clearcuts and "reprod doghair" (densely planted, young conifer reproduction plots consisting primarily of Douglas fir). The hunting was still fun; but it could be exceedingly frustrating to close within bow-shot distance given the tendency of trailed elk to cross roads and clearcuts where other hunters could spot them, or the elk habit of fleeing into the refuge of the park as soon as they sensed any hunting pressure.

Was that a firearms shop that you had in the 1970's? That was a nice gift from the S&W guys. I just viewed some online and I like that monogram look. I have a either a Hoppe's or Marble's nitro solvent bottle that I dug. I am pretty sure that I also dug another gun care product, gun oil I believe, though I can't recall what brand. Tooled lip as I recall, both bottles are pretty pedestrian, but suit my interests well.

When I accompanied my parents to visit my mom's side of the family in Germany in 1964, we did a little driving tour of Europe. Many sights and experiences have stuck with me. One of the most prominent memories is a tour of the Krieghoff factory in Ulm conducted by Herr Krieghoff himself! I was pretty interested in art at the time, as well as firearms and hunting, and the highlight of the tour for me was watching the engravers working under magnifying lenses at their benches. The expression one was executing in the face of a Hirsch stag--the entire animal was probably less than 30mm in length--was phenomenal! I also recall that some of the engravers had lightning-stoppered bottles of beer sitting on their workbench. We also visited the Anschütz and Walther firms, but did not receive such royal reception as extended by Krieghoff. I wish that I had been wealthy enough at some point in my life to have purchased a fine Krieghoff double or drilling--I almost feel a little guilty for our working class family having received such hospitality.

Hi Will,

As a former educator, I can tell you have benefitted from many great people in your life and your experiences have helped to mold you into a solid citizen, made even wiser with gentle aging. In short, a smart, man's man with a great set of values. Guys like you are getting rare, my friend... To answer your question, no, not a gun shop. It was a store in the Eastfield Mall. It was across the CT River at Springfield's eastern border. (The national HQ of Friendly's Ice Cream was next door. They had a retail operation which I often took advantage of.:p) Anyways, I've long considered myself lucky to have lived in "The Silicon Valley Of The 1800s." The area from New Haven to Springfield which is steeped in American manufacturing, especially gun history. From Eli Whitney's factory (now a museum) Remington, Marlin, etc. in greater New Haven, I got to Colt's factory in Hartford before it obtained federal status and speaking of feds, the Armory in Springfield is quite a place if ever you're on this side of the USA. --I go back to Springfield once a year, hopefully, to take in an AHL hockey game, visit old friends, and stomping grounds which hasn't changed too much. --A year ago there was a decent sized lake that was drained near Springfield College. Of course I went and picked up a couple bots. Most good ones were already gone. Still it was somewhat interesting to see what humans threw into that body of water thinking that those items would never again see the light of day... Well, I guess the waters of life do go full circle and some of the best roads in life are indeed, the old paths. Stay Well. --CT Len
 

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