Value of labeled bottles and detecting fake labels.

[markh]

Hi,
I've recently started up bottle collecting again after a long hiatus, and I found this forum while searching around on the web and have been reading some of the interesting and informative postings. I like medicine and cure bottles.

I had a general question about how much a label/box adds to the price of an old bottle? Is it 2x,5x,.. the price of an unlabeled specimen? I know this is a hard question to answer and most would say "it depends" on the age, desirablity and rarity of the bottle.

I recently saw two labeled bottles with boxes on Ebay, a Kilmers Indian Cough and Consumption Oil Cure that sold for ~$400 and an American Blood Cure that sold for ~$500. The Kilmer's unlabeled sells for <$100 and for the American Blood Cure I don't know the going price of an unlabeled bottle, but $500 seems high for a 5" aqua cure. I've never seen one of these and can't find any reference to it in the books I have, so it may be rare. Anyone ever seen one? Does a having a label give a bottle a 5x-10x price of an unlabeled one?

If labeled bottles can sell for such a good premium, this brings up the question of how to detect fake labels. I saw the recent discussion about a possible fake label on the Burnett Cocoaine bottle on ebay, but I couldn't tell by looking at the photo. Are there any signs to look for or does it just take experience to tell if a label is fake?

I saw this bottle that's for sale on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380164181495&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The label looks like it just came off the printer. I've got a Detchons with label and it has "Detchon's Mystic Cure for Rheumatism and Neuralgia" in red ink, also the bordering box is in red. The text is identical to the label on my bottle, but the one on Ebay just looks too new.

Where do people get copies of the origanal labels?

Mark

 

[RedGinger]

I agree that it looks too perfect. That's a good question about copies of original labels. I don't know, maybe they make up what they thought they would say by looking at trade cards and ads. Still, I would like to know the answer to your question.

 

[Just Dig it]

if the label was hanging that low for that long some damage would have gotten to it.

 

[coboltmoon]

As a general rule I use twice the price for a paper labeled bottle. This can go up a lot if the label has a great graphic, narcotic ingredients, or historical information like a Shaker connection. You have to ask yourself how interesting is the label.

I am not sure of the date when printing technology changed (I think 1880-1890) but newer print uses a dot matrix pattern for print and graphics. A 10X loop is good for seeing the tiny dot patterns. Old paper looks old and experience is a good judge. Condition is not a great guide, I own gem mint 1800’s paper. Judge the quality of how it is made. Passing on an item because it has no wear might mean you passed on a perfect example.

It is hard to tell if a label is old from a computer screen. In my opinion the Burnett’s label was real and the Mystic cure is fake.

 

[Lordbud]

Back in the day some lucky collectors would find an entire case of a given bottle down in a basement or attic of an old house or barn (or even at an estate sale).
Sometimes these cases were doled out bottle by bottle to keep the price ("value") up; other times you'd see a guy at a flea market with a whole case of labeled with contents antique bottles that he'd found and was selling off at $5 or $10 per bottle.
Small groups of antique bottles with labels/contents found in attics, basements or inside walls during house restoration can be far more rare than their privy-dug brothers since they can be unique.
20 - 30 years ago labeled bottles turned up at the monthly antique fairs once so popular in this area and for prices not much more than
the same bottle without a label.

 

[glass man]

IHAVE SEEN SOME GREAT LABELS ON OLD BOTTLES!THIS ONE IS HARD TO TELL. NEED A REALLY CLOSE UP PIC. WOULD HELP.IT IS MIGHTY WHITE,BUT I HAVE SEEN SOME LIK THAT. IT IS AMAZING HOW SOME THINGS HOLD UP OVER SO MANY YEARS. HARD CALL FOR ME CAUSE IT STILL HAS CONTENTS AND UNOPENED WHERE SOME OF THE MED. WOULD HAVE STAINED IT.
WHAT IS THE GOING PRICE FOR A MINT ONE OF THESE WITH NO CONTENTS OR LABEL? FINDING THIS OUT THE CONTENTS WOULD ADD LITTLE MORE VALUE AND THE LABEL SHOULD NOT ADD A LOT TO IT ON THIS BOTTLE.
SO IF YOU LIKE THE BOTTLE THINK IN TERMS OF ITS WORTH WITHOUT NO CONTENTS/LABAL AND GO FOR THAT PRICE. JAMIE

 

[markh]

Thanks for the comments. That's a good idea to use a magnifier to look for dots in the printing. Wish I was able to closely inspect the bottles I buy, but there's not many shows around here in Colorado, so I'll just have to look carefully at posted photos when I'm buying online.
I think the Mystic cure goes for ~$30+/- unlabeled.

Mark