Warning To Paper Label Collectors

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Robby Raccoon

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Here's the worst bottle-theft I've ever seen:
Muskegon%u00252BCollection%u00252B035.JPG
Clear bottle at left. Lack's here was a big-time priater of bottles. Thrown over another company's ACL.
Circa 1950s.
 

DanK

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View attachment 169869
Great-looking paper label bottle, right?

I thought so too. I thought it too good to be true. And I analysed the label several times, trying to figure out if it was old or newer.
I determined it was fairly old-- Possibly correct for the bottle. And I let its condition stop me from thinking harder.

Here is what is WRONG with the label:
1. The label is perfectly centered on the plate-mold and is fairly straight. Typically, labels on very old bottles are found tossed on haphazardly (this mostly applies to round and small labels) and without thought on where the seam is or what angle it is at. More modern bottles still often don't give a damn where the seam is.
2. The label's printing does not reflect expected age of closure. This was my main issue, but I'd seen similar printing not 5 years after when this closure was last reportedly used (1895.)
3. Periodically in spots, you could see the adhesive used to apply the label leaking out of the edge. Typically, the adhesives used were biodegradable and would not show up 100 years later. Often, the labels will just fall off.

The label is about 1914-1920 due to company. The closure is a Thatcher closure, circa 1883-1895. This is a later Thatcher closure.
It is possible but unlikely that this bottle, with an Oregon label, was bought or stolen for use years after its East-coast use (Thatcher closure supposedly was only used in New England area.)

Other signs to BE CONCERNED about:
1. Many labels are added on after the fact. Pepsi bottles in recent years have had old labels copied and thrown onto old bottles. If the label looks superb but the bottle has issues-- like white staining, dirt in it, scratches, etc-- then the label was likely added on in the last 20 years.
2. If a label tells you the ounces, and you're suspicious of it, pour water carefully into it up to where its neck begins and pour that into a measuring cup. Do the ounces about match up?
3. If the label looks like it was made so cheaply that it can't be real, well, it probably isn't.

Signs NOT to be too concerned over:
1. A label over another label or embossing. Many companies pirated bottles and threw their labels over other labels or embossing. Common practice.
2. A label so beat to Hell that it almost detracts from the bottle. This, though, kind of deceived me. My label is in fair shape but is missing portions, has holes and clear signs of wear in it.
3. A bottle, like medicines, with its original box-- or one very common that it isn't likely to be faked.

Other label information:
1. It is very immoral but common to put a label on a bottle, for display purposes or to sell, and go to sell it without alerting the customer. Sadly, the customer is less likely to let it be know that the label is fake or an original added on later. We could avoid this by etching the bottom of the bottle with FAKE LABEL, but that is not something most of us would do.
2. Some companies, though mostly in the modern era, have one-uped fakers. Sebewaing Brewing Co. used a fascinating system of putting dates on their beer by notching the label in a special machine. The month and day are notched on either side of the label. New old stock added on after the Brewery went out typically is not notched. So, sometimes fakers will fail.
3. Do not be fooled by a beat-up, worn, damaged label. If it is suspicious, be suspicious. I made an error in wanting the bottle badly enough to not look at all signs.

This is thankfully my only label added on later.
View attachment 169870

View attachment 169869
Great-looking paper label bottle, right?

I thought so too. I thought it too good to be true. And I analysed the label several times, trying to figure out if it was old or newer.
I determined it was fairly old-- Possibly correct for the bottle. And I let its condition stop me from thinking harder.

Here is what is WRONG with the label:
1. The label is perfectly centered on the plate-mold and is fairly straight. Typically, labels on very old bottles are found tossed on haphazardly (this mostly applies to round and small labels) and without thought on where the seam is or what angle it is at. More modern bottles still often don't give a damn where the seam is.
2. The label's printing does not reflect expected age of closure. This was my main issue, but I'd seen similar printing not 5 years after when this closure was last reportedly used (1895.)
3. Periodically in spots, you could see the adhesive used to apply the label leaking out of the edge. Typically, the adhesives used were biodegradable and would not show up 100 years later. Often, the labels will just fall off.

The label is about 1914-1920 due to company. The closure is a Thatcher closure, circa 1883-1895. This is a later Thatcher closure.
It is possible but unlikely that this bottle, with an Oregon label, was bought or stolen for use years after its East-coast use (Thatcher closure supposedly was only used in New England area.)

Other signs to BE CONCERNED about:
1. Many labels are added on after the fact. Pepsi bottles in recent years have had old labels copied and thrown onto old bottles. If the label looks superb but the bottle has issues-- like white staining, dirt in it, scratches, etc-- then the label was likely added on in the last 20 years.
2. If a label tells you the ounces, and you're suspicious of it, pour water carefully into it up to where its neck begins and pour that into a measuring cup. Do the ounces about match up?
3. If the label looks like it was made so cheaply that it can't be real, well, it probably isn't.

Signs NOT to be too concerned over:
1. A label over another label or embossing. Many companies pirated bottles and threw their labels over other labels or embossing. Common practice.
2. A label so beat to Hell that it almost detracts from the bottle. This, though, kind of deceived me. My label is in fair shape but is missing portions, has holes and clear signs of wear in it.
3. A bottle, like medicines, with its original box-- or one very common that it isn't likely to be faked.

Other label information:
1. It is very immoral but common to put a label on a bottle, for display purposes or to sell, and go to sell it without alerting the customer. Sadly, the customer is less likely to let it be know that the label is fake or an original added on later. We could avoid this by etching the bottom of the bottle with FAKE LABEL, but that is not something most of us would do.
2. Some companies, though mostly in the modern era, have one-uped fakers. Sebewaing Brewing Co. used a fascinating system of putting dates on their beer by notching the label in a special machine. The month and day are notched on either side of the label. New old stock added on after the Brewery went out typically is not notched. So, sometimes fakers will fail.
3. Do not be fooled by a beat-up, worn, damaged label. If it is suspicious, be suspicious. I made an error in wanting the bottle badly enough to not look at all signs.

This is thankfully my only label added on later.
View attachment 169870
I know this is an old post and I'm hoping some will still see this. I remodeled an old house we were living in in the 80's. While stripping all the lath and plaster I found a bunch of whiskey bottles and other artifacts that where placed inside the walls and ceilings during construction. Based on a few dated items I found, a raffle ticket to win a brand new 1915 Ford Touring Car and a bottle with a label that appears to be from a government dispensary with a 1917 date on it, the house was built in 1915 to 1917. There were around 27 1/2 pint and full pint whiskey bottles many literally falling on my head while doing the demo. All were in tact and 4 still had labels and 1 the label was laying with the bottle separated from it. The carpenter must have been a drinker and just put the bottles in the work to dispose of them, luckily preserving them. They are all in good shape no chips or cracks .The Arrow Bar bottle has the address on the bottle and my wife and kids went with me to the address. The tenant an Optometrist did not own the building said he did not know it was a bar but heard it was a Speakeasy. In 1915 which was pre prohibition it would not have been a speakeasy so it must have been an bar before that. It was obvious as the building was still showing the use even at that time. Anyway attached are the bottles I found and still have save for 2 Frey and Co bottles I was able to sell. From the time I found the bottles mid 80's until Feb 2023 I had never cleaned them so they had 108 years of dust on them. The arrow Bar bottle I had on display foe 30 plus years on a kitchen shelf and the label became separated from the bottle. So I cleaned the bottle removing all the dust and watered down some Elmer's glue and put it back on the bottle This hopefully did not devalue the bottle but I did not know of a better way to preserve that particular label with its original bottle. another bottle the Golden Grain by Otto Homer that label was found with the bottle and after 40 years it was evident the bottle and label were a match as the dirt and dust outline on the bottle matched the missing pieces outline of the label I cleaned the bottle and secured the label the same way with the watered down glue. The other three bottles are as I found them except I did clean the glass around the labels being careful not to damage the edges of them. Any input on value would be appreciated Its possible these labels may be the only ones still in existence
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jwpevahouse

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I like old bottles which have original labels. It's fairly easy to find unused old labels cheaply on the internet and attach them to old bottles. Looks nice but not authentic. Unless you pay a lot for a labeled bottle then no big loss, looks good on the shelf. I suspect most bottles originally had paper labels which didn't survive washing and age. Victorian era labels tend to be colorful and decorative. Too bad more didn't survive.
 

jwpevahouse

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Authentic old label from my collection, quart size bottle Jersey City NJ, dates prohibition era.
 

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embe

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Old thread. It's hard to believe some labels survived, you'd think the moisture/humidity, bugs etc would have eaten them away over the years.
 

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