Fragment Challenge - Internal thread on lip

[BabyZ]

This is a fragment from an archaeological site, and unfortunately it is the only part of the bottle we have.

It seems to be mouth-blown and, and I first thought a laid-on ring finish. But looking on the inside (right hand image) it has an internal "thread" or groove which intrigues me. Probably a specialised lipping tool, so I am thinking mid 1800's (1840-1850 ish), but I'm just not sure.

Anyone seen anything like it?

The scale in the photo is 5cm (1.97") long with 1cm graduations.

The site is in Australia, by the way, but given the probable date it will not have been locally produced, so probably US or UK in origin.

 

[GuntherHess]

Its tough to tell anything from a piece that small. Internal thread bottles were pretty rare.
It sort of reminds of the groove inside Baltimore Loop beers bit its more square.
Must be some kind of food bottle/jar from the size. There were all kinds of crazy patents for jar closures.

 

[BabyZ]

Thanks for the reply, GuntherHess - I'm kinda glad I'm not alone in being a little stumped!

The bottle, I think, was not unduly large. The fragment is only 33mm (1.3") across.

I reposted the photograph above, rotated to (I think) reflect the orientation of the lip on the bottle (ie, the top is now uppermost).

I am not convinced that it is actually 'threaded' like I first said (not enough angle on the groove), but I am still thinking it is some obscure means of fastening or sealing. I thought something so distinctive may be quite diagnostic, but perhaps it is a little too obscure [8D]

 

[IRISH]

Hi BabyZ, welcome to the forum.

It's not threded, it is the groove for the rubber ring in an early codd bottle c Late 1870's to mid 1880's, if you search this site for "starkey" or "starkeys" you will find a post by me with photo's of the type of bottle your fragment is from and info about the bottles.

If your site is in or near Sydney the bottle you have a bit of will be the exact same bottle as the earler one in my photo [] .

 

[BabyZ]

Thank you, Irish, both for the welcome and for the information. []

I think you are absolutely right - the fragment looks exactly like the rightmost item in your photo. Looking now at the (limited) data about bottle dating in my archaeologists field handbook, the rounded (as opposed to straight-sided) shape might be indicative of the Codd Mount patent of 1878.

The excavation site is actually up in New England, but that was 'near Sydney' in terms of supply routes at the time, I think []

 

[IRISH]

It's possible but unlikely that it's a Mounts patent, Mounts are rare and used in Victoria, Starkeys narrow necks are fairly common and where used in the district you dug it up.

I would not take much notice of any bottle dating info in an archaeologists field handbook [] , it tends to be very inaccurate. Many serious bottle collectors have been researching the company history, patent details etc. etc. of Australian found bottles for over 30 years, so anything bottle related you want to know you have found the place to get the info right here [] .

 

[BabyZ]

Yeah, on reflection I'd been coming to the same conclusion [] The book is really not that helpful, whereas you guys on the other hand ... []

I guess I was thinking that I could reference the book in my paper as my source. I might just use "Irish, Pers. Comm." instead []

 

[amblypygi]

ORIGINAL: BabyZ

...
The excavation site is actually up in New England, but that was 'near Sydney' in terms of supply routes at the time, I think []

So is there a New England in Oz, or are you in the US? I'm confused

Sean

 

[WhiteLighting]

COOL@!-
at firsti thought it was pieces of a insulator,but after hearing about the screwtop "inside" i have one also and wondering from other members "just PM'ed afew also" -just how rare are these types of botles?....

 

[IRISH]

Yep there is a New England in Oz, in the highlands not too far from Sydney.

Both internal screw bottles and marble stoppered bottles are pretty common types in Australia and England and several other countrys, both great fields to collect in.