Meinhard Bitters - Ever Heard of it?

[javatestcase]

Hi,

In researching my family history, I've come across a reference to part of my family making a product called "Meinhard Bitters".

Some of the family lived in Venezuela not long after Siegert invented Angostura Bitters in the late 1800's, and our family may have some connection to the Siegert family. However, the connection is not currently know. The "Meinhard Bitters" product may have been Venezuelan, German, or even American in origin.

I've done searches on the internet and in bottles forums, but have no access to the books written on Bitters Bottles. If any of you who own the books could take a look for me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Many Thanks!

Bill Tarr

 

[whiskeyman]

BILL...I checked my copy of Ring's For Bitters Only and found no mention of it. I don't have the new volume by Ring & Bill Ham.,,,maybe someone else does.

 

[BRIAN S.]

Hi Bill and welcome to the forum !
I personally have never heard of that Brand. And I have no listing for it in Bitters Bottles by: Ring & Ham .
I will check the new Bitters Bottles supplement and see if it is mentioned .
Brian

 

[javatestcase]

RE: Meinhard Bitters - Thanks for the help!!

I appreciate you taking the time to look this up for me.

It's really hard to say what the true history is here. This is oral history of the family that is now around 100 years old. When I started investigating the history of this branch of the family, and then found the Angostura story online, I was really struck by the parallels.. It's possible we were somehow involved with that company, and someone incorrectly recorded that there was actually a brand called Meinhard bitters.

Anyway, I hope to find out one day, and you all have been a great help.

Thanks!!

Bill

 

[swizzle]

I just dug an embossed angostura bitters last week. Its newer with a plastic embossed screw cap. Are they worth anything? I'm also finding the history that goes with this bottle very cool. Hope you find what your looking for. Swiz

 

[whiskeyman]

BILL...I googled and found 2 references to Meinhard and angostura bitters and Venezuela , but the website that had the info was "restricted" ,or something...ya had ta be a registered member to access the info..

 

[javatestcase]

hi Whiskey,

Thanks for the tip… I'd been searching for Meinhard and Bitters, adding Angostura and Venezuela brought back some interesting results that you referred to.

1. A 1876 doc entitled "Amargo De Angostura" Preparado por Theodoro Meinhard en Ciudad-Bolivar ( Antes Angostura ). I was able to download the doc through a site:

http://www.indexstock.com/store/Chubby.asp?ImageNumber=772260

It is in Spanish, but I got a friend to take a look. It seems to be a document by a University Professor saying that the bitters made by Meinhard are safe.

2. A site for a project called MUSE. It seems to be locked down, but it states the link is to an article:

Duguid, Paul 1954- "Developing the Brand: The Case of Alcohol, 1800-1880"
Enterprise & Society - Volume 4, Number 3, September 2003, pp. 405-441
Oxford University Press

I was able to get a copy; here are the excerpts that involve a legal case between Meinhard and Siegert (the founder of Angostura). It seems Meinhard may have been using the name Angostura to describe his Bitters, and Siegert contested in the English courts:

“Findlater, Mackie, a large retail chain, became involved (albeit reluctantly) in resisting Siegert's claim to the geographical description "Angostura.â€

“Similarly, in Siegert v. Find-later, Siegert laid claim to the term "Angostura" because, after "the introduction [of the bitters] into England in 1863 the name 'Angostura Bitters' was used for many years as descriptive of them." Again, it is acknowledged that "the plaintiffs themselves never adopted the name" but that "from the time of their introduction in 1863 down to the present time the popular name of the plaintiffs' bitters in this country has been 'Angostura bitters,' " and, again, that this was the term "used by the public to describe the plaintiff's goods." Siegert had merely "adopted the name... which the public had given the bitters before."87 Indeed, all agreed that Meinhard, the rival manufacturer, had been the first of the two contestants to put "Angostura" on a product, but popular use (rather than Meinhard's entrepreneurial action) was allowed to trump such precedence. Indeed, even though Meinhard had entered the words "Angostura bitters" at Stationers' Hall before the plaintiff, the judge concluded that, "so far as England is concerned, the term 'Angostura bitters' means a bitter of the kind that is made by the plaintiffsâ€

“in the case of Raggett v. Findlater (see Table 3), Raggett defended its right to the term "nourishing" by touting the medicinal properties of its special additive to beer. Wolfe's schnapps was advertised both as medicine and as drink, while Meinhard (the manufacturer of a rival schnapps cited in Siegert v. Findlater; see Table 3) was subject to stamp duty because of medicinal claims it made.â€

“Siegert v. Findlater. (In the last case, Findlater appeared as the English agent for the bitters manufacturer Meinhard.)â€

Anyway, this is a great start, although I can still find no references to bottles for Meinhard, its possible his name was not part of the products title. The story seems to be coming together!!

Thanks!

Bill

 

[whiskeyman]

BILL...Muse was the site I couldn't get into...WTG!
At least you do have a start now...and a definite connection. Good Luck...

 

[Indiana Jones]

Hello im new to this forum this is a sweet forum well i have a bottle i have not been able to find

its a gin small clear screw lid type it says on the side ( Continantil distile corp Philadala Pa it also has a coat of arms on it and on the side in big bold letters it says ( GIN)

can anyone help me with the age valur ect

Thank you very much Matt