Vernors Ginger Ale 150th B-Day

[M.C.Glass]

You're trying to revise history. References state that his profits increased in 1870 from $700 to $10,000 selling ginger ale.
Just because you write your conclusions in big font doesn't make them more correct. State your doubts, as others have.
There may be legalities that caused him to choose the 1880 date for his trademark. Does not mean he didn't sell any ginger ale before that. Doesn't mean he didn't sell the first batches of ginger ale extract or from a fountain in 1866. The reason he was working with ginger ale before the war is because it was popular in Ireland. Maybe he called it Irish Ginger.
But you're comfortable calling him a liar because you can't find any news stories from 150 years ago describing it. It continues to irritate.
Try to figure out who invented Dr. Pepper.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

You're trying to revise history. References state that his profits increased in 1870 from $700 to $10,000 selling ginger ale.
Just because you write your conclusions in big font doesn't make them more correct. State your doubts, as others have.
There may be legalities that caused him to choose the 1880 date for his trademark. Does not mean he didn't sell any ginger ale before that. Doesn't mean he didn't sell the first batches of ginger ale extract or from a fountain in 1866. The reason he was working with ginger ale before the war is because it was popular in Ireland. Maybe he called it Irish Ginger.
But you're comfortable calling him a liar because you can't find any news stories from 150 years ago describing it. It continues to irritate.
Try to figure out who invented Dr. Pepper.

MCglass

You're right! I am trying to revise history! That's what I attempt to do almost every day! Please show me a reference that's actually dated 1880 or earlier, (that wasn't written later) that says ...

"His profits increased in 1870 from $700 to $10,000 selling ginger ale"

... and I will stand humbly corrected! But if such a claim is found in publication dated later than 1880, then my opinion remains the same.

Respectfully,

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

I think maybe he played around with it, experimented with it for years, before he thought he perfected it. Then one day after years of experimenting & perfecting it decided to get serious about it. And that might of been 1880. He couldn't of just made it in 1880 & then decide to get serious & trade mark then in 1880. LEON.

Leon

That's a reasonable assumption, but proving it is another thing. Accurate historical accounts demand bona fide documentation to support such claims. Believe me, I would like nothing more than to find absolute proof that Vernor's Ginger Ale was born in 1866, or even 1876, but so far I have not seen a single thing that supports that. But I have seen an official document that says 1880.

Respectfully,

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Just for the record ...

The 1911 trademark documents didn't come from a newspaper archives, they came from here ...

https://tsdrsec.uspto.gov/ts/cd/casedocs/bundle-download.pdf?rn=83107

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

P.S.

Of the thousands of words contained in this thread, the one word I find most interesting of all is where James Vernor scribbled on the 1911 trademark ...

"About"

That leads me to believe he wasn't absolutely sure of the exact day or year, but that it was "about" January 1, 1880 to the best of his recollection. Remember, the 1911 trademark was filed thirty-one years after 1880, and that's a long time for someone to recall exact dates. He wasn't even sure himself, but had it been 1866, 1876, etc; I have to believe he would have said as much and scribbled that on the trademark form instead of 1880.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

From 1866 to 1880 is fourteen years! That's a really long time to be experimenting with a formula for ginger ale or any other type of beverage! But that's not my point, my point is that almost every account on the planet says Vernor's Ginger Ale was born and first served at James Vernor's drug store at the corner of Woodward Avenue and Clifford Street in Detroit, Michigan in 1866. The 1936 70th Anniversary newspaper article stated it was specifically on July 29, 1866. So its not as if I'm trying to rewrite history, I'm just challenging those claims and asking for 'proof' of the 1866 date. But so far I have not seen that proof!

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

U.S. Census' and Tax Record for James Vernor. Please save and zoom to read ...

1866 Tax Record - Vernor & L'Hommedieu - Apothecaries



1880 U.S. Census - Keeps Drug Store



(1890 U.S. Census - Not listed on Ancestry.com)

1900 U.S. Census

James Sr. - Manfg.
James Jr. - Clerk Wholesale Ginger Ale



1910 U.S. Census

James Sr. - Manufacturer Ginger Ale
James Jr. - Manager Ginger Ale

 

[iggyworf]

Even before this thread, Of the little info I knew about Vernors, I didn't think it was 1866 either, but 1880. With all this new info and documents I tend to stick with the 1880 date. But no need to get irritated, We are just having fun discussing the past and trying to decifer information. We are not trying to disrespect anyone. This has been an excellent thread. thanx everyone. I think I will go by a Vernors this morning!

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Rich

Have you visited this site that shows Keith Wunderlich's amazing Vernor's collection and where he says (in part) ...

http://www.hourdetroit.com/Hour-Detroit/June-2016/A-Ginger-Tale/

Today, the story is proudly repeated on the Vernors corporate website, though historians have cast doubt on whether it is fact or fiction. A July 29, 1936, Detroit News article about the 70th anniversary of the company doesn’t even mention the myth. Instead, Vernor’s son James Vernor II told the reporter that his father didn’t start making the ginger ale until after he returned from the war, saying “I suspect that all through the war he carried in his mind that formula for the soft drink.” A June 11, 1962, Detroit News story acknowledges the myth, but dismisses it as “fascinating, even if inaccurate.”

 

[hemihampton]

I'm not Irritated. Here's my Speculation. in 1866 he was Full time Pharmacist & Florist that in his spare time, on the side, experimented with some concoction called Ginger Ale. He served it to people that came into his Pharmacist. As the years went on the popularity of his Ginger Ale grew. And Grew. Then people said hey, this stuff is so good & getting so popular you oughta just sell Ginger Ale full time. He said your right, I think I will, this was 1880. Up until 1880 no news articles were written & no documents because this was a small little known secret of his & loyal Customers. Until he let the Cat out of the Bag in 1880 & went BIG TIME. LEON.