Steve/sewell
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Are the GI 95 and 97 and the GII 52, historical flasks the oldest made?
The way the mold makers of our historical flasks followed national , trendy and sigificant events that shaped our country
is it quite possible these three flasks are some of if not the first historical American Flasks ever made.The early Benjamin Franklin flasks made in the New Jersey Glass houses qualify but one of the flag/Eagle flasks just might be as old.
Ben Franklin died in the year 1790.A feeling of mourning and than good remembrance would soon follow.
My GI-97 flask is very crude and has two sides of Franklin.There is no inscription on the flask.
The GI-95,and 97 flasks could have been made the following year or maybe in the following ten years
after his death.That would put these into the category as being the oldest historical flasks.
The GII 52,53 and 54 flag pint sized flasks which are attributed to Coffin and Hay by Mckearin are probably not correct
in where they were made and just how early.Coffin and Hay did not become a Glass works official name until the year 1844.
I can on the other hand see the flasks being made in perhaps the Heston Carpenter(1778 to 1808)The Gloucester works (1804-1822),The Waterford glass works (1822 - 1880),The Olive works(18o8 - 1820),or The Baltimore glass works (1800-1880s) under various owners and names.(.I base this on the fact that most of the time when a person or event was commerated it was just after (months) to less than a year,the time period the event was acheived.The flasks in question have either 13 stars or 20 stars on them.Here is a chart with the time the and amount of stars added as more states joined the union.The flasks I own are very thin walled and although attention to detail is paramount they seem quite a bit older than the other popular flasks in my collection.
Here are the amount of Stars in our flag in any given time period.
13 Stars (1777/1795)
15 Stars (1795/1818)
20 Stars (1818/1819)
21 Stars (1819/1820)
23 Stars (1820/1822)
24 Stars (1822/1836)
25 Stars (1836/1837)
26 Stars (1837/1845)
27 Stars (1845/1846)
28 Stars (1846/1847)
29 Stars (1847/1848)
30 Stars (1848/1851)
31 Stars (1851/1858)
32 Stars (1858/1859)
33 Stars (1859/1861)
34 Stars (1861/1863)
35 Stars (1863/1865)
36 Stars (1865/1867)
37 Stars (1867/1877)
38 Stars (1877/1890)
43 Stars (1890/1891)
44 Stars (1891/1896)
45 Stars (1896/1908)
46 Stars (1908/1912)
48 Stars (1912/1959)
49 Stars (1959/1960)
50 Stars (1960/NOW)
Fifty-one Stars (future)
Here are some facts about some of our other American historical flasks.
The Masonic flasks GIV 1- 30 particularly from New England could be as old as the late 1700s to the 1810s.
Most of the influential persons from the end of the 1700s to the early 1800s were Masons.
Why wait until the 1820s when the Masons began to be ridiculed to commerate their order with Flasks.
The GI - 18,19,20,and 21 Baltimore Washington Monument flasks were made right after the completion of the
Washington Monument in Baltimore in 1829.This was our countrys first stone memorial to George Washington.
Why wait to commerate the monument on a flask long after it was completed.
The Pikes peak flasks the GXI 1-54 were made right after the euphoria of the Gold rush in 1859 and up till 18 70.
This event was played out over 15 years hence the number of flasks and their diverse nature and location of manufature.
Sucess to the railraoad flasks the GV-1-9 were made soon after 1826 as a commercial tramroad was surveyed
and constructed at Quincy, Massachusetts, by Gridley Bryant, with the machinery for it developed by Solomon Willard.
It used horsepower to haul granite needed for building the Bunker Hill Monument from the quarries at Quincy,
four miles to the wharf on the Neponset River.
Jenny Lind arrived in New York in the year 1850 for her first of three years of concerts in the United States
All of the flasks the GI-99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110 were all made in the years 1850 to 1855
during and just after her big American tour.
Louis Kossuth became a hero of inspiration for standing up to the Russians and the Austrians ethnic cleansing and helping
10,000 refugees escape Hungray Germany and Austria and come to the United states.The ship he arrived on the Mississippi
was carved into a Calabash flask GI-112 in 1851 by Philp Dolfein.Other Kossuth flasks were made in the same time period
at the Bridgeton Glass works in New jersey.
The only Flasks that don't coincide exactly with one event might be the Washington flasks.
The early Dyott Wasington Flasks seem to have been made on the twenty fifth anniversary of his death.
The Later Dyottville Washington flasks were conceivably made around the 1849 to 1855 period commerating the fiftyth year after his death.
The GII-52 flask in my collection almost looks to me made from flint glass as it is a very pale greyish aqua.
So I ask the question is it possible the GII-52 flag/eagle flask with 13 stars was made in the year 1795
commerating the last year of the thirteen stripes because the next year it went up 2 stars to 15.
The flag than stayed at 15 stars for another 23 years when in 1818 it went up to 20.
Could the GII 53 and 54 flasks have been made sometime in the two year period there were 20 stars.
Why not? Other national events flollowed with commerative flasks telling the story soon there after.
What do the other members that collect these flasks think about my hypothisys.
It really does make complete sense to me as a commodity is hot when a commidity is popular
not ten to twenty years after.I have a feeling Drew Brees footbal jerseys wont be selling to well in the year 2030.
I think the same can be said about the historical flasks they captured the moment right after it happened not decades.
Here is a picture of the GI -96 Franklin/Dyott Flask side by side with the earlier GI -97 Franklin/Franklin New Jersey flask.
The mold is slightly smaller on The New Jersey flask and there are differences in the features on franklins bust on each Bottle.
The Dyott flask is more refined and the spacing is further apart on the medial ribbing which is vertually the same on each bottle.
The glass is much thinner on the earlier flask.
-
The way the mold makers of our historical flasks followed national , trendy and sigificant events that shaped our country
is it quite possible these three flasks are some of if not the first historical American Flasks ever made.The early Benjamin Franklin flasks made in the New Jersey Glass houses qualify but one of the flag/Eagle flasks just might be as old.
Ben Franklin died in the year 1790.A feeling of mourning and than good remembrance would soon follow.
My GI-97 flask is very crude and has two sides of Franklin.There is no inscription on the flask.
The GI-95,and 97 flasks could have been made the following year or maybe in the following ten years
after his death.That would put these into the category as being the oldest historical flasks.
The GII 52,53 and 54 flag pint sized flasks which are attributed to Coffin and Hay by Mckearin are probably not correct
in where they were made and just how early.Coffin and Hay did not become a Glass works official name until the year 1844.
I can on the other hand see the flasks being made in perhaps the Heston Carpenter(1778 to 1808)The Gloucester works (1804-1822),The Waterford glass works (1822 - 1880),The Olive works(18o8 - 1820),or The Baltimore glass works (1800-1880s) under various owners and names.(.I base this on the fact that most of the time when a person or event was commerated it was just after (months) to less than a year,the time period the event was acheived.The flasks in question have either 13 stars or 20 stars on them.Here is a chart with the time the and amount of stars added as more states joined the union.The flasks I own are very thin walled and although attention to detail is paramount they seem quite a bit older than the other popular flasks in my collection.
Here are the amount of Stars in our flag in any given time period.
13 Stars (1777/1795)
15 Stars (1795/1818)
20 Stars (1818/1819)
21 Stars (1819/1820)
23 Stars (1820/1822)
24 Stars (1822/1836)
25 Stars (1836/1837)
26 Stars (1837/1845)
27 Stars (1845/1846)
28 Stars (1846/1847)
29 Stars (1847/1848)
30 Stars (1848/1851)
31 Stars (1851/1858)
32 Stars (1858/1859)
33 Stars (1859/1861)
34 Stars (1861/1863)
35 Stars (1863/1865)
36 Stars (1865/1867)
37 Stars (1867/1877)
38 Stars (1877/1890)
43 Stars (1890/1891)
44 Stars (1891/1896)
45 Stars (1896/1908)
46 Stars (1908/1912)
48 Stars (1912/1959)
49 Stars (1959/1960)
50 Stars (1960/NOW)
Fifty-one Stars (future)
Here are some facts about some of our other American historical flasks.
The Masonic flasks GIV 1- 30 particularly from New England could be as old as the late 1700s to the 1810s.
Most of the influential persons from the end of the 1700s to the early 1800s were Masons.
Why wait until the 1820s when the Masons began to be ridiculed to commerate their order with Flasks.
The GI - 18,19,20,and 21 Baltimore Washington Monument flasks were made right after the completion of the
Washington Monument in Baltimore in 1829.This was our countrys first stone memorial to George Washington.
Why wait to commerate the monument on a flask long after it was completed.
The Pikes peak flasks the GXI 1-54 were made right after the euphoria of the Gold rush in 1859 and up till 18 70.
This event was played out over 15 years hence the number of flasks and their diverse nature and location of manufature.
Sucess to the railraoad flasks the GV-1-9 were made soon after 1826 as a commercial tramroad was surveyed
and constructed at Quincy, Massachusetts, by Gridley Bryant, with the machinery for it developed by Solomon Willard.
It used horsepower to haul granite needed for building the Bunker Hill Monument from the quarries at Quincy,
four miles to the wharf on the Neponset River.
Jenny Lind arrived in New York in the year 1850 for her first of three years of concerts in the United States
All of the flasks the GI-99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110 were all made in the years 1850 to 1855
during and just after her big American tour.
Louis Kossuth became a hero of inspiration for standing up to the Russians and the Austrians ethnic cleansing and helping
10,000 refugees escape Hungray Germany and Austria and come to the United states.The ship he arrived on the Mississippi
was carved into a Calabash flask GI-112 in 1851 by Philp Dolfein.Other Kossuth flasks were made in the same time period
at the Bridgeton Glass works in New jersey.
The only Flasks that don't coincide exactly with one event might be the Washington flasks.
The early Dyott Wasington Flasks seem to have been made on the twenty fifth anniversary of his death.
The Later Dyottville Washington flasks were conceivably made around the 1849 to 1855 period commerating the fiftyth year after his death.
The GII-52 flask in my collection almost looks to me made from flint glass as it is a very pale greyish aqua.
So I ask the question is it possible the GII-52 flag/eagle flask with 13 stars was made in the year 1795
commerating the last year of the thirteen stripes because the next year it went up 2 stars to 15.
The flag than stayed at 15 stars for another 23 years when in 1818 it went up to 20.
Could the GII 53 and 54 flasks have been made sometime in the two year period there were 20 stars.
Why not? Other national events flollowed with commerative flasks telling the story soon there after.
What do the other members that collect these flasks think about my hypothisys.
It really does make complete sense to me as a commodity is hot when a commidity is popular
not ten to twenty years after.I have a feeling Drew Brees footbal jerseys wont be selling to well in the year 2030.
I think the same can be said about the historical flasks they captured the moment right after it happened not decades.
Here is a picture of the GI -96 Franklin/Dyott Flask side by side with the earlier GI -97 Franklin/Franklin New Jersey flask.
The mold is slightly smaller on The New Jersey flask and there are differences in the features on franklins bust on each Bottle.
The Dyott flask is more refined and the spacing is further apart on the medial ribbing which is vertually the same on each bottle.
The glass is much thinner on the earlier flask.
-
