Bottle with internal threaded stopper

[Mihai]

Hi everybody,

Today I was walking my dog in a park and I found a bottle, as the title says, complete with an internal stopper. It was half out of the ground, in an area with some trees and bushes. I saw many shards around and some recent bottles but this is the only one that could be older.

What I would like to ask is this: until when were this kind of bottles produced? There is no doubt that this is a machine made bottle, but the rest of bottles were quite recent, maybe 80's, and this doesn't match.

To make things even harder to date, next to this bottle was a neck from a bottle with internal thread but with tooled lip. I would like to try my luck and to move the dirt a bit, but this place is metres away from a Police Headquarters and I bet they wouldn't like to tunnel under their fence.

Thank you!

 

[Mihai]

And this is the neck I was telling about.

 

[capsoda]

Hey Mihai, Both tops look almost identical. Can you tell what the stopper is made of?

 

[Mihai]

At a closer look I can see the horizontal marks on the broken one. The camera can't take better close-ups, but I'll try again. Oh, and the broken one is dark green with more bubbles then glass and the other is amber.

The stopper is made from the same hard rubber or composite stuff I found before.

 

[cowseatmaize]

There is no doubt that this is a machine made bottle, but the rest of bottles were quite recent

Hey, are you saying the top bottle is ABM internal thread. I would think it would have to be hand tooled. I'm confused about the question.
If your just asking how some 1900 bottles could be mixed with 1980's stuff there are possibilities, like the whole tip was just a big barn cleanout of 80 years of stuff or the later was tossed on top. Maybe some old stuff was thown on top of a later dump. If it was a filled area the top newer layer would be at the bottom. As a foundation or such was dug down the older would end up on top. Maybe it was a previous dig and the older bottles were taken and they left the new stuff... but missed one. Archeology is cool stuff.

 

[Mihai]

At the first bottle the seam goes right to the top but at the broken neck I can't see any seam, the lip is uneven and the glass is full of bubbles. The tool marks are clear at the shard but not existent at the complete one.

In the area I found the bottle there is an alley, cut through the hill, that looks recent and I think the builders took the old layers and put on top of new ones. And I have another theory. In this place there are two lakes and a river, used for fishing and boat activities and I found already a spot where maintenance throw the mud dragged from water, full of recent bottles. Maybe the location of the bottle found yesterday is the old place for dumping mud, which can explain the variety of ages.

What I ask is how old, or new, can be an ABM internal threaded bottle. Some US sources give a span of between 1880 and 1920, but I don't know for sure how long they were ysed un UK. For example in India codd bottles were used until 1970 I think, when they were banned. Dunno y!

 

[cowseatmaize]

Huh? You got me. I can't think of a way for a machine to make an IT in a single stage. It seems like the same as trying to get embossing on the inside of a bottle, I just can't picture how. If a sepeate stage while the glass was still hot enough maybe. There were devices made back around 1850 but the weren't really automatic or full height that I know of. The neck was still finished by hand. Even a full height threaded Mason was cut off and ground down by hand.
I hope someone has an answer for you (and me).

 

[Mihai]

My knowledge about bottle making is lower then most of the guys on this forum, I cannot sustain a contradictory discusion with any of you, and most of all I don't want to. I still have a lot to learn from this forum. I will post as many and as clear pictures I'm able to and I will leave them to do the talking for me.

 

[Mihai]

Please see the seam going all the way on the lip.

 

[Mihai]

And another ungle for the top.