Crown top question

[kranked003]

hi all,

i was wondering, when the crown top was inverted and during the earliest times it was used, did the bottles always use a cap similar to what is used today, or was the crown top ever used in conjunction with a porcelain stopper?

I found this for sale on craigslist and thought it looked very odd with that stopper. Then i realized i did not know the history well enough

thanks

 

[beendiggin]

I think the crown top finish was patented in 1892, and the lightning type stopper which you show on your bottle was commonly attached to bottles during the transition from "blob" top finishes to crown top caps. There are a number of reasons they were combined. Leftover stock needed to be used up, distrust of the "new" crown top closure is possible, a bottling plant would need to be converted over at (I'm assuming) a large expense...etc. Bottles with crown tops are sometimes found that way. I've even dug them that way. You can still buy bottles with the lightning stopper, like Grotsch beer for example.

 

[beendiggin]

You'll like this site...it answers a lot of question. I mean a lot..

http://www.sha.org/bottle/index.htm

 

[kranked003]

well then, from what i read on that site, the crown top was capped with a metal cap that we are familiar with from the very beginning. therefor this bottle should not have the closure shown.

i thought the bottle looked to new for the old closure

thanks

 

[beendiggin]

Even though the crown bottle finish and the lightning stopper are not made for each other, it is possible to find them together on some bottles made during the transition period around the turn of the century. It is possible that someone could put them together to try to fake a bottle's age but I haven't seen that done before. Whenever I've encountered a bottle mis-matched like yours it's been an old marriage. Usually they show up on hand tooled crowns.

 

[surfaceone]

Hello Eric,

I agree with Paul/beendiggin. I've found a couple of old crowns with either the lightning stopper in place, or the remains of the rusted bales attached. Also have found crowns with corks inside. That TOC transitional era in bottles is very interesting territory to me, as I've been digging down from 1909 in a dumpsite for the last couple weeks.

What was the bottle that you posted the photo in question? Neck looks almost Chero-Colaish.

 

[cyberdigger]

I believe it was common practice to fit crown top bottles with stoppers during the transition period, during which time many bottles were refilled at Ma and Pa proprietors and things hadn't yet gone totally industrial scale mass factory output yet.. the porcelain stopper worked fine on the crown top bottle, so why not keep doing what was familiar? Three advantages of the stopper over the cap: it was reusable, you didn't need a tool to open it, and you could re-seal it any time.. I love seeing stoppers on crown tops.. harkens back to a time when people actually used their noggins ..