Grand Valley Brewing Co shard Mich

[tftfan]

Good luck guys ! Hope you get more than one. []

 

[druggistnut]

That is incorrect. They are both listed as plate molds.

I see an education coming, for me.

Bruce, I understand that the embossing is put in place by a plate. I always referred to the recessed area surrounding the embossing as being caused by a slugplate. It is different on the shard I posted, than the two crown's on your site. Some are round, some are oval, tombstone shaped, etc...
Please help me to understand the differences. I need to get my vocabulary in line with the rest of you fellas, it seems.
Bill

 

[UncleBruce]

slug plate (mold) = plate mold

Same thing. Slug plate is the vulgar form. [8|]

 

[druggistnut]

slug plate (mold) = plate mold

Thanks Bruce.

Now, if I wanted to differentiate in a description between the smooth plate mold and the recessed mold, what would you suggest? I know people who only collect the recessed plates, as they look different.
Bill

 

[UncleBruce]

That is new terminology to me. I haven't a clue as to what they are referring to as "recessed"? Unless, and this is just a guess, they mean a plate mold bottle vs private mold bottle. Where a private mold bottle hasn't got that seam for the plate, as the whole embossed half of the mold can only be used for the one company it is engraved for. As a side note plate mold embossing is also usually circular in appearance while a private mold is quite often linear. I have many plate mold bottles where one side of the plate area sticks out further that the opposite, which probably is attributed to how the plate itself was inserted into the mold body. Good thing we have this forum!!!!!!! [sm=thumbup.gif]

 

[druggistnut]

Good thing we have this forum

I agree. There are people on other bottle pages that complain about animosity here and people who don't know what they are talking about, giving opinions. You know what, that is how it goes in conversations, as well. You weed things out, you learn, you correct others (amicably) and you ask the questions. That's called life.

OK, it has always been my understanding (this is going to be wordy) that:
Beers that you can, with certainty, attribute to a saloon, for instance (not an actual bottling works), 9 times out of 10, never had a makers mark, were called "private molds." They could, or could not have the circle or oval line, surrounding the embossing. Mostly all (but not always) bottles attributed to a bottling works/brewery, had a makers mark. I believe this is mainly because of the sheer number of bottles that they needed.
Now, the line that encircles the embossing, in these woods, has always been referred to as a "slugplate." If it was embossed, but did not have the line, we would refer to it as a non slug plate.
Take a bottle that has the oval on the front, without embossing. We assume there was a label that was placed there. Why the round circle? I understand that a "Plate" mold encompasses the entire width of the half mold it resides in, right? That is why we call the bottles with the defined circle/oval "slug" plates, as it is normally just a disc or rectangular piece that slid in to a certain spot on the mold.
Take a bottle that has an address embossed and the business concern moves. A Dingley bottle is a classic. They moved 5 times, with subsequent address changes in the embossing. You can actually see the smaller "slug" that they created and slid in, on to the plate mold, to correct the address line. So what do you refer to the smaller piece of metal as? There was already a plate mold in place.
See where I am going with this? There has to be a universal "WORD" to describe the bottles with the defined encircling line around the embossing... It can't be "plate mold."
Bill

 

[mtfdfire22]

I believe the words "slugplate", "plate mold", and "private mold" are modern interpretations and not an actual original definition. In the attachments I have found you will find examples of what are known simply as PLATES not private, slug or otherwise. In my understanding from research on this particular subject, I have found the following:

What we refer to as a "slug plate" would be an item inserted into an exiting mold style. A bottler would have an assortment of bottle sizes and styles to choose from. The bottle maker would use their generic mold and insert a customized plate into this mold. This goes for round, oval, or square "slug plates"

what we refer to as a "private mold" would be a mold which instead of having a removable plate had the words or designs stamped directly into the mold. Examples of this would be a local beer bottle with a "slug plate" is a plate mold where as warners safe cure would be a "private mold".

I believe a plate would be made at the bottle makers facility and stored afterward for future use in the event a bottler would like more bottles produced. This was an item that could be easily stored and categorized. It was an effective, affordable way for a company to have a bottle which advertised their name directly on a bottle without the worry of a label which could get wet, fall off or be easily removed and refilled by another company. I also believe the slug plated bottles had a better chance of finding their way back to the saloon which owned them so they could be cleaned and reused. Bottle theft was a commonplace among bottlers of the time and without a doubt competition would be less likely to steal and reuse a bottle which had a name imprinted directly on the bottle.

check out this patent:

http://www.google.com/patents/US593857?pg=PA8&dq=bottle+mould+plate&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UhbuUKvFO6Xq2AX7n4GADA&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=bottle%20mould%20plate&f=false

 

[mtfdfire22]

as I discussed with bill earlier.......everyone says "I found a pontil" or "is it a pontil?" "does it have a pontil?"
if we want to go with correct wording on EVERYTHING you would have to talk everyone into using the proper wording such as: "Is that bottle empontilled?" or "does it have a pontil mark?" which would both be proper terminology whereas the word pontil alone makes no sense unless you are talking directly about the mark left by a punty rod.

same goes for hinge mold. a hinge mold is not a bottle or even a type of bottle unless you are using the word in context with its manufacturing such as " this is a hinge molded bottle".

 

[druggistnut]

So, this where we seem to be at- (yes, I am beating this to death)

1) A bottle that is made specifically with an engraved mold (that a slug is NOT slid in to), in that the mold is used for no other purpose than for THAT company, is a private mold bottle.

2) A plate mold bottle uses a generic mold, used for ANY company's bottle, that requires a specific engraved plate, or slug, to be inserted. That mold can be reused many times, with different slugs (or plates), for many different job orders.

3) Bottles with or without the discernible circle, oval, rectangular or tombstone shaped line encompassing the embossing can be a private mold, or not.

4) When checking all through the different types of bottles, whiskeys, beers, sodas, druggists, etc... there seems to be a common thread. Any time you find a bottle with the defining line surrounding the embossing, it is commonly referred to as a slug plate. This is common throughout the country.

So, what is the proper way to differentiate between a bottle with the line and the bottle without? They are both plate molds. They are variants, to be collected. If you had the exact same bottle, one with the line/border and one without, next to each other on a table, what would you refer to them as? In Michigan, the one is called a slug plate. Is there another word used, that anyone is aware of, that describes these bottles?
Bill

 

[mtfdfire22]

the word i would use......UGLY
i find slugplated bottles with the circle to be far more attractive than those without.