10-31-2019, 07:17 PM #141
10-31-2019, 07:27 PM #142
10-31-2019, 07:41 PM #143
P.S. ~ P.S.
In case you are wondering where I'm going with this -- its to establish that Schweppes was granted a Trademark for their label. Now we need to determine if/when Cross & Company applied for and/or was granted a Trademark for their label? If that can be determined, it might shed some light on the so called copycat issue. By the way, which brand was introduced first in Canada; Schweppes or Cross?
10-31-2019, 09:46 PM #144
- Join Date
- May 2014
Wow Bob that research is fantastic, thank you! I don't think you'll ever find an Ambassador bottle, there's a good chance that there just aren't any left in existence. Lost BC paper label soda bottles probably outnumber known examples 10 to 1. Many have only one known example.
That's really interesting to see that Schweppes was granted a trademark for their label, the description of it being "chocolate coloured" is throwing me off but otherwise sounds like the red and white label.
As for which brand was available in Canada first, your newspaper ad from 1880 confirms that Schweppes was here before Cross & Co was established, and I expect that Schweppes was available in some capacity long before 1880 due to its ubiquity in the UK in those days.
I'd be extremely surprised if Cross was granted a trademark for their label, considering that they were only ever a local bottler I'm not sure they'd have bothered trademarking something as mundane as that even if they hadn't copied the design from a major brand. They did seem to be an unusually bold bottler in terms of flirting with copyright infringement; I can't think of any other post-1930 bottler who came anywhere near as close to ripping off Coca Cola's trademark as Cross & Co did.
11-01-2019, 03:11 AM #145
Cross's was not established untill 1894...but not really because he was involved with Vancouver Soda Water Works and Calley & Co. prior, Cross's does not show up in the directory until 1899-1900.
The only thing I have seen Registered is the Black Bear Brand, oh and a correction I need to make, I showed an ACL label for Cross's that has no border, but in fact the paper label version has a border.
I don't believe all bottlers necessarily had a trade mark reg. or copy right noted on their labels, but maybe it was more of a thing for international or national brands, So some deep digging is needed to find out for the Cross's brand. On a case about local bottlers trade marking, Felix Bottlers did so with their Double AA product....speaking of them, were they even authorized to use Felix the cat?!Collecting Western Canadian sodas, and USA Orange Crush.
11-01-2019, 09:00 AM #146
- Join Date
- May 2014
Oh that's a good question about Felix, it does seem odd that a local bottler would be granted rights to use a pretty iconic cartoon character doesn't it?
11-01-2019, 09:48 AM #147
11-01-2019, 10:17 AM #148
Just for the record ...
One thing is certain -- of the various changes the Schweppes labels went through over the years, the Fountain Trademark was in constant use, and is still being used today ...
Notice the Fountain and cow skulls on this label from the 1955 newspaper Ad I posted earlier
But on this Bicentennial (Bicentenary) bottle from 1983 the skulls mysteriously morph into a couple of trees. I wonder what that's all about?
The Fountain Trademark is still being used today
Last edited by SODABOB; 11-01-2019 at 10:33 AM.
11-01-2019, 01:22 PM #149
If anyone is interested, there is a Schweppes "Cone" shaped bottle currently on eBay ...
No bids yet = Starts at $15.16 in U.S. Currency
Ships from Australia
Shipping = $37.17 if shipped within Australia - More if shipped to the U.S.
Part of the description says Era = 1970s -- But that could be a typo for 1870s ???
(After this I am shifting my focus to the Copycat / Infringement possibility)
11-01-2019, 02:18 PM #150