Anheuser busch blob

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ROBBYBOBBY64

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The conjoined AB mark continues to confuse. Julian Toulouse's "Bottle Makers and Their Marks" which was written by a bottle industry insider in 1971 says that it was Adolphus Busch 1904-1907. ABGMCo (Adolphus Busch Glass Manufacturing Company) was their more common mark used from 1886-1928. But there are lots of other opinions out there about the AB conjoined mark. I like Toulouse because he knew a lot of the people who knew the histories.
Ever see one like this? My Canadian friends don't recognize it and it isn't American. Could be from the UK but why import to American, American beer? Dug in NJ dump.
ROBBYBOBBY64.
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SandiR

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Ever see one like this? My Canadian friends don't recognize it and it isn't American. Could be from the UK but why import to American, American beer? Dug in NJ dump.
ROBBYBOBBY64.
3a80c5256f193fb7cf35e8b586caecff.jpg
86b54d55c90b0b8213306e0f4f555338.jpg
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That's extremely interesting. How big is that bottle? It is very much like some European bottles that I have found in Vancouver. Only mine don't have that base mark - but the number on the heel intrigues me. Can you e-mail me at snratch(at)telus(dot)net? I'd like to look further into this. There seems to be very little information from Great Britain on their marks - they just don't see these types of bottles as being old enough to be interesting. I would assume this is the maker's mark - and not Adolphus Busch. It's an early Owen's machine-made bottle and might have been made in Great Britain or even Germany. It would be an imported beer if it is from Europe. How do you know it isn't American?
 

Len

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Ever see one like this? My Canadian friends don't recognize it and it isn't American. Could be from the UK but why import to American, American beer? Dug in NJ dump.
ROBBYBOBBY64.
3a80c5256f193fb7cf35e8b586caecff.jpg
86b54d55c90b0b8213306e0f4f555338.jpg
ceaa09972ed22c654d477ab74738668f.jpg
Ok, I'll state the obvious--looks primitive. Possibly hand etched into an early already existing mold. Wine bottle knockoff?
 

ROBBYBOBBY64

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That's extremely interesting. How big is that bottle? It is very much like some European bottles that I have found in Vancouver. Only mine don't have that base mark - but the number on the heel intrigues me. Can you e-mail me at snratch(at)telus(dot)net? I'd like to look further into this. There seems to be very little information from Great Britain on their marks - they just don't see these types of bottles as being old enough to be interesting. I would assume this is the maker's mark - and not Adolphus Busch. It's an early Owen's machine-made bottle and might have been made in Great Britain or even Germany. It would be an imported beer if it is from Europe. How do you know it isn't American?
Looks like a standard 12 oz beer bottle. What would you like Emailed? I believe it is not American because I have never seen roman numerals like this III =3 or X =10? Just seemed British made because none of my Canadian friends who dig loads of AB embossed bottles have ever seen one like this.
ROBBYBOBBY64.
 
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SandiR

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Ah - here I see the size. I'm a Canadian archaeologist working on a bunch of bottles from Vancouver, BC. I've never seen one just like this, either, but I've seen loads that shape (known as an apollinaris shape) with different marks on them (sorry if I tell you stuff you already know). This one looks half American and half European to me, so I'm a bit confused, too. However, if it is teal green with that mark, then my first guess would be American. The British people preferred a darker kind of yellowish green - an old preference from the days in the 1600s when they developed a very strong green glass. The first images I'm adding are of two bottles similar to yours (emerald green) with their bases (yes, that 2 is backwards). Then a comparison image with one I know for certain is European. You can see it is more brown. I don't know for sure that the emerald ones are from the U.S., but they are different from the one I know for certain is European (as it's a Guinness bottle and at that time only bottled Guinness was shipped overseas). (As an aside, any E.J. Burke bottle you find is from Ireland but might have been made in Germany as they made about 1/2 the bottles used in the British Isles in the early 20th century). The ones in my photos are 6 Imperial ounces or a "splits" size, but I have one or two 12-ounce bottles, too. What really got my attention, though, is the "5" on the heel of yours as most of mine have a number or code on the heel and the letters are big like that. Is there any other mark on the opposite heel? I assume not, as I think you would have photographed it. Until after WWI, the Brits only made green beer bottles. Something I only recently found out. But I don't know what shades - the Americans certainly used green, too - but MOST of their beer bottles seem to be amber.

Now, your bottle was made in an Owen's Machine - and from what I see, I think it was an early one (1905-1908 ish - but don't quote me, I could be wrong, I don't know everything). As far as the AB is concerned, I would bet my lunch that it was a bottle made by Adolphus Busch, and possibly in St. Louis. Adolphus was the "Busch" part of Anheuser-Busch (Busweiser), but he was a business tycoon and built himself a couple of bottle plants. He incorporated in 1892, and then joined with the American Bottling Company in 1905. But I do wonder if the plants that he maintained an interest in used the AB mark as a combination to indicate the Adolphus Busch brand along with their being part in the American Bottling Company?

LOL - any of that make sense?
 

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DavidW

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Ah - here I see the size. I'm a Canadian archaeologist working on a bunch of bottles from Vancouver, BC. I've never seen one just like this, either, but I've seen loads that shape (known as an apollinaris shape) with different marks on them (sorry if I tell you stuff you already know). This one looks half American and half European to me, so I'm a bit confused, too. However, if it is teal green with that mark, then my first guess would be American. The British people preferred a darker kind of yellowish green - an old preference from the days in the 1600s when they developed a very strong green glass. The first images I'm adding are of two bottles similar to yours (emerald green) with their bases (yes, that 2 is backwards). Then a comparison image with one I know for certain is European. You can see it is more brown. I don't know for sure that the emerald ones are from the U.S., but they are different from the one I know for certain is European (as it's a Guinness bottle and at that time only bottled Guinness was shipped overseas). (As an aside, any E.J. Burke bottle you find is from Ireland but might have been made in Germany as they made about 1/2 the bottles used in the British Isles in the early 20th century). The ones in my photos are 6 Imperial ounces or a "splits" size, but I have one or two 12-ounce bottles, too. What really got my attention, though, is the "5" on the heel of yours as most of mine have a number or code on the heel and the letters are big like that. Is there any other mark on the opposite heel? I assume not, as I think you would have photographed it. Until after WWI, the Brits only made green beer bottles. Something I only recently found out. But I don't know what shades - the Americans certainly used green, too - but MOST of their beer bottles seem to be amber.

Now, your bottle was made in an Owen's Machine - and from what I see, I think it was an early one (1905-1908 ish - but don't quote me, I could be wrong, I don't know everything). As far as the AB is concerned, I would bet my lunch that it was a bottle made by Adolphus Busch, and possibly in St. Louis. Adolphus was the "Busch" part of Anheuser-Busch (Busweiser), but he was a business tycoon and built himself a couple of bottle plants. He incorporated in 1892, and then joined with the American Bottling Company in 1905. But I do wonder if the plants that he maintained an interest in used the AB mark as a combination to indicate the Adolphus Busch brand along with their being part in the American Bottling Company?

LOL - any of that make sense?
Hi SandiR! I really am beginning to think the "AB connected" mark was used as a "multi-tasking" mark, standing for both the Adolphus Busch Glass Manufacturing Company (bottle factory) beginning around 1904-1905, AND later for American Bottle Company (not "Bottling" Company). The fact that the initials also fit "Anheuser-Busch" was also a very good thing whether it was coincidental or not, and perhaps they allowed everybody to assume that was what the initials stood for.
One note to think about: Some "AB-connected" beer bottles were ALSO marked with a small "CO" to the right of the logo. That would presumably mean the name of the company could NOT be "Adolphus Busch Company" or "Anheuser-Busch Company" since neither of those were exact names of the brewery or their bottle factory. On those bottles it would stand for American Bottle Company.

The dark teal green bottles with the Roman numbers underneath the logo have been found a few times, and they certainly look like they are British. They might have been made for export IF they had been made in the US at St. Louis. Some glass companies made bottles in dark greens to imitate European bottles, and American Bottle Company may have done that. And yes they are machine-made with the crude-looking mold seams.

I think those dark green AB-connected bottles are the ONLY AB-connected ones that are machine-made, they are definitely not mouthblown. So far, have heard from people in Canada, South Africa, and 2 from the United States (Michigan, Pennsylvania) in this list of code numbers that have been recorded so far. I started this list several years ago as just an idle whim project, thinking it would be a fairly small list! Ha! Now it has turned into a monstrosity with many codes. Maybe a little meaningless in some ways, but I have had fun putting this together and adding more codes from people around the country!
You have probably seen this page before, but I'll show it here, for anyone else who wants to see the list of codes that have been reported so far. Here's the page URL- see the Roman numeral reported bottles at the very bottom of the list:
https://glassbottlemarks.com/list-abconnected-bottle-base-mold-codes/
 
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SandiR

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Hi SandiR! I really am beginning to think the "AB connected" mark was used as a "multi-tasking" mark, standing for both the Adolphus Busch Glass Manufacturing Company (bottle factory) beginning around 1904-1905, AND later for American Bottle Company (not "Bottling" Company). The fact that the initials also fit "Anheuser-Busch" was also a very good thing whether it was coincidental or not, and perhaps they allowed everybody to assume that was what the initials stood for.
One note to think about: Some "AB-connected" beer bottles were ALSO marked with a small "CO" to the right of the logo. That would presumably mean the name of the company could NOT be "Adolphus Busch Company" or "Anheuser-Busch Company" since neither of those were exact names of the brewery or their bottle factory. On those bottles it would stand for American Bottle Company.

The dark teal green bottles with the Roman numbers underneath the logo have been found a few times, and they certainly look like they are British. They might have been made for export IF they had been made in the US at St. Louis. Some glass companies made bottles in dark greens to imitate European bottles, and American Bottle Company may have done that. And yes they are machine-made with the crude-looking mold seams.

I think those dark green AB-connected bottles are the ONLY AB-connected ones that are machine-made, they are definitely not mouthblown. So far, have heard from people in Canada, South Africa, and 2 from the United States (Michigan, Pennsylvania) in this list of code numbers that have been recorded so far. I started this list several years ago as just an idle whim project, thinking it would be a fairly small list! Ha! Now it has turned into a monstrosity with many codes. Maybe a little meaningless in some ways, but I have had fun putting this together and adding more codes from people around the country!
You have probably seen this page before, but I'll show it here, for anyone else who wants to see the list of codes that have been reported so far. Here's the page URL- see the Roman numeral reported bottles at the very bottom of the list:
https://glassbottlemarks.com/list-abconnected-bottle-base-mold-codes/
Yes, David, that was my thought as well - that Adolphus Busch may have used this mark before being bought out by American Bottling and then continued to use it to identify the bottles from the old Adolphus plants for a few years after. I thought I saw somewhere (either that or I theorized) that the AB mark might have been designed for the St. Louis World's Fair.

Yes, I've seen your site, it is quite a project you've taken on!!

I suppose that a few bottles might have been exported to the UK really early on in the Owens history - as that was one of the fears of the German Producers if they didn't license the Owens machines as well - that their mould-blown or semi-automatic-made bottle exports to the UK might be taken over by US producers who had the cheaper Owens made bottles. I've learned an awful lot about the Owens machine in Europe over the past few months. Hope to publish something on it.
 

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