CHARLES RYAN EMBOSSED SODA

[SODAPOPBOB]

TJSJHART ~

Thanks. I wish it were a John Ryan bottle. I think a nice one starts at about $250.00 and goes up from there. I did the same thing in my initial search. I think it automatically connected the Charles part of the article title to the name Ryan.

blobbottlebob ~

Howdy cuz ... Thanks. There is absolutely no seam on the crown closure. (Applied after moulding). And the side seams are so heavy they stand up and can be felt. But, like cyberdigger said, still a characteristic of BIM bottles as late as 1913+

SPBOB

 

[cyberdigger]

Those be "tooled" tops, they are.. not applied, but shaped by hand using a tool to mold the lip from the existing molten glass..

 

[celerycola]

LICENSE GOES TO RYAN
------------------------------------
Commissioners Decision Announced
and Was as Expected
----------------------------​

--------​

Charles Ryan was awarded the last
remaining bottler's license by the li-
cense commissioners last evening. This
is for conducting a bottling business in
the wooded building on Holden street
formerly used as a Chinese laundry.
This completes the list of licenses to
be granted for the next year, its decision
having been made only after a hard
campaign by P. H. Whalen and John
Purcell, the other two candidates. The
other bottling license was granted last
week to T. Mulcare.
This is the last day of business for
the saloons and bottling works which
failed to receive licenses, and Monday
morning the new firms will begin busi-
ness.​

THE NORTH ADAMS EVENING TRANSCRIPT
SATURDAY, APRIL​

29, 1899​

 

[celerycola]

North Adams Transcript
September 5, 1925

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

celery ~

Thanks. You are my new best friend. At least this establishes a start-up date for Charles Ryan. And with the date being 1899, this suggest the possibility of his first bottles as being "crowns." Now I need to determine how long he remained in business. But with your last post, we know he was still around in 1925. And with this said, I still agree with cyberdigger as to the approximate date of my bottle as being circa 1913. I just went back and did some 101 research on closures, and from Bill Lindsey's website I found the information below. (In addition to a ton of other stuff that still boggles the average mind). And just when I thought I knew everything - I discovered I still have a lot to learn. I am certain now (as cyberdigger pointed out) that my bottle has a tooled finish, and not an applied one. Not that I doubted him for a second, mind you. Lol []

SPBOB

From Bill Lindsey's Historic Bottle Site.

Mouth-blown, true applied crown finish closure soda bottles do exist but are very uncommon and then almost always of foreign (Asian and possibly European) manufacture (empirical observations). Mouth-blown, tooled crown finish soda bottles date from possibly as early as 1894, but more likely from about 1897 to about 1912-1915, when machine-made manufacture of soda and beer bottles was almost complete, although it appears in Canada that tooled crown sodas continued until the late 1910s (Axelson 2000; Lockhart pers. comm. 2003). Machine-made crown finish bottles all date after 1905 when the first license for soda and beer bottles was issued for the Owens Automatic Bottle Machine. Owens machine produced bottles would exhibit suction scars (Miller & McNichol 2002). The semi-automatic machine production of narrow necked bottles was not significant until after about 1910 making machine-made, non-suction scarred crown finish bottles likely to date no earlier than the early 1910s.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

This was a fun discussion for me, and want to thank everyone who participated. It's interesting how easily we can turn an old piece of glass into and almost living breathing thing. But I guess you have to be a bottle collector like ourselves to truly appreciate and entertain such a bizarre thought. And to put a face to a town I've never heard of until today, I found this postcard of Main Street in North Adams, Massachusetts, circa 1910. If you look really close, I think that kid about halfway down the street is holding my bottle and taking a sip from it. Those certainly were they days. I wish I could have been there for real.

SPBOB

 

[ncbred]

Here are a couple of SS Cokes with the OZ embossed on the shoulder which I don't think is common for SS Cokes. These particular two date around 1906-1910.

 

[ncbred]

Dennis must have developed a soda search engine for his own personal use or something. Its amazing to me how you can post the most obscure bottle and he has a label or advertisemnt for it. Its great to have people like him here.

 

[celerycola]

I'm reminded of Archaeology 101 at Cal State. The professor handed out boxes of junk he dug out of his garden and we were to research the artifacts and date the site. One of the items in my group's box was a Max Factor lipstick. I was able to track it down and date it by the logo to a sixteen month time frame in 1940-41 and included a statement from the company historian in the paper I turned in. The professor said no one had ever been so thorough in the years he had assigned that exercise. He signed me up for an independent study on artifacts excavated from a Chinese work camp where I was working with grad students.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

ORIGINAL: cyberdigger

Looks to me like a 1920's -30's returnable.. the bottle design and the "8 fl oz" embossing put it there..
..if you think this is the oldest crown top in your collection, Bob, you got another thing coming, literally.. I still feel bad you never got the Anheuser bottle which vanished into USPS air.. this time I will invest in delivery confirmation.. []

cyber ~

embossed ...

E. L. Kerns - Trenton, N.J. - Registered

I received your bottle in the mail today. Man, that was quick! The above was posted on Monday the 18th. I received it today, Thursday the 21st. It arrived undamaged and is in like mint condition. Thank you. I will have to find a way to make it up to you.

However, I am a little confused, (as usual). I did a little research on it, but have to admit I didn't find much. In fact, I am not even 100% certain whether it's a soda bottle or a beer bottle. But according to the copy/pasted message below that I got from another chat forum, they refer to it as a "soda." But my main confusion is in regards to the date it was made. In your message above you suggested the bottle would pre-date my circa 1913 Charles Ryan bottle, thus being the oldest Crown bottle in my collection. But I am right back to where I was the other day, and seem at a loss as to properly date it. It appears to be a BIM with heavy side seams and a "tooled" lip. But other than that, I'm clueless. So I guess I have failed miserably with regards to the classroom test of dating soda bottles 101. Please come to my rescue again and tell us more about it.

Thanks again, I love the bottle and will always treasure it. My dad likes it too because he's a former hunter and likes anything with deer or elk on it.

Bob

Here's the forum text I mentioned ...

Originally Posted by Hunky [/align]Anybody know @ histories, web sites, data, etc @ the E L Kerns Beverege (Soda) Company in Trenton, NJ. I think that they had an Elk head as thier logo and horizontally-ridged glass bottles? Any street addresses?
[/align]
Reply;[/align] [/align]The Kerns building was on N. Broad St right next to the Delaware-Raritan canal near Allen St. The entrance for vehicles was off of N. Montgomery St. After the building was closed when the company went out of business, it became the home for the Trenton Police Department K-9 unit for years.
[/align]

And the bottle itself. Beneath the head on the shoulder is a ribbon embossment that says "ELK."
[/align]