Clover Pontil ?

[kungfufighter]

ORIGINAL: AntiqueMeds

what I find odd about the snap-case is it was around for a long time but only apparently sprang into widespread use around the early 1860s. Was it due to the culture of optimized manufacturing that was required during the Civil War period?
The snap-case was obviously a great improvement in bottle production but did it take a war for everyone to see the light?[]

Not everyone wants to embrace a technique that would enable less skilled workers to produce bottles at a similar rate.

 

[RED Matthews]

Hello all of you I think that since it was a two part mold, there is a good chance it had a plate bottom with the four diagonals formed in the bottom cavity. One would need to see the seam around the four sides up on the heal to confirm this, but it seems logical to me. A regular balled end pontil could have made this mark that way. RED Matthews

 

[tigue710]

ORIGINAL: kungfufighter

ORIGINAL: AntiqueMeds

That's an interesting way to think about it. I wasnt there so everthing I say is conjecture.
Whatever their intent , I have to conclude it wasnt very successful or it wouldnt be so rare.

This is similar to my thinking about the molette - a tool used to push up the base so that the entire blowpipe or pontil rod would not stick to the base (resulting in a "tube" pontil scar) but rather a process in which only the outer edges touched the base so that it was easier to remove the rod. My sense is that these indented bases were created at or about the time or commensurate with the creation of the snap case. For that reason I am not sure that they are as rare as they are short lived. I was not there either of course so this is just my .02.

Molette, that's a word I was looking for earlier in this post while attempting to explaining kick-ups. Wasn't it around for a long time and used to make the kick-up bases Jeff?

Also pertaining to one of my earlier posts, do you think the Clover pontil I pictured and explained as attributed to Stoddard is actually Stoddard? I possibly jumped the gun on that one...

 

[bottlekid76]

ORIGINAL: baltbottles

here is a late 1850s American Blackglass ale.

Chris

Great discussion! I always enjoy learning more about the empontiling process.

Chris - I have that same nice ale, love that example. []

~Tim

 

[kungfufighter]

ORIGINAL: tigue710

ORIGINAL: kungfufighter

ORIGINAL: AntiqueMeds

That's an interesting way to think about it. I wasnt there so everthing I say is conjecture.
Whatever their intent , I have to conclude it wasnt very successful or it wouldnt be so rare.

This is similar to my thinking about the molette - a tool used to push up the base so that the entire blowpipe or pontil rod would not stick to the base (resulting in a "tube" pontil scar) but rather a process in which only the outer edges touched the base so that it was easier to remove the rod. My sense is that these indented bases were created at or about the time or commensurate with the creation of the snap case. For that reason I am not sure that they are as rare as they are short lived. I was not there either of course so this is just my .02.

Molette, that's a word I was looking for earlier in this post while attempting to explaining kick-ups. Wasn't it around for a long time and used to make the kick-up bases Jeff?

Also pertaining to one of my earlier posts, do you think the Clover pontil I pictured and explained as attributed to Stoddard is actually Stoddard? I possibly jumped the gun on that one...

There is definitely a clover shaped scar on some Stoddard made products - the photo you posted may be one but I have seen others that were better defined. Let's ask Mike George to post some pics - I believe he has a Jewett's with the scar we are looking for.

 

[AntiqueMeds]

I know I've seen it well defined on pickle bottles but cant find any photos in my files.
Hopefully someone else can dig up a photo.

 

[baltbottles]

ORIGINAL: bottlekid76

ORIGINAL: baltbottles

here is a late 1850s American Blackglass ale.

Chris

Great discussion! I always enjoy learning more about the empontiling process.

Chris - I have that same nice ale, love that example. []

~Tim

Tim, mine looks identical with the iron pontil and central mold vent dot on the base. We dug 4 of them out of a Brooklyn Ny pit last spring. They are an interesting bottle and hard to attribute where they might have been made.

Chris

 

[deenodean]

Just got caught up on what I started!!

What is a TPM Cowseatmase? Whatever it is I am sure my bottle is a cup mold. Only one seam, it is around the base of the shoulder.

Antique Meds-- my thought of what a clover pontil is... it is a blob of glass next to the center dot that looks like a clover spice, not a 4 leaf clover. I read that somewhere, I'll have to dig back into the archives to see where it is written.

 

[tigue710]

ORIGINAL: baltbottles

ORIGINAL: bottlekid76

ORIGINAL: baltbottles

here is a late 1850s American Blackglass ale.

Chris

Great discussion! I always enjoy learning more about the empontiling process.

Chris - I have that same nice ale, love that example. []

Tim, mine looks identical with the iron pontil and central mold vent dot on the base. We dug 4 of them out of a Brooklyn Ny pit last spring. They are an interesting bottle and hard to attribute where they might have been made.

Chris

Chris, there is an ale shape very similar to this one attributed to Stoddard, but these two do not look like Stoddard glass...

 

[cowseatmaize]

What is a TPM Cowseatmase? Whatever it is I am sure my bottle is a cup mold. Only one seam, it is around the base of the shoulder.

TPM= three part (or piece) mold. Sometimes the seams aren't clear but can usually be found going from the shoulder part up the neck some. The cup mold was all but abandoned by the the time of the iron pontil but there were a few exceptions.
Sorry about the redirection here Dan, it happens sometimes.