COCA COLA QUESTION / QUANDARY

[SODAPOPBOB]

~ CORRECTION ~

In the second column I meant to say ... used for straight sided bottles "initially" and then later used for the 1915/1917 and later Hobbleskirts. [] It was likely "used" for many, many years.

SPBOB

 

[wonkapete]

Hey Bob, I wouldn't be so quick to jump on it for those amounts. The Coca-Cola script looks like a stencil to me, over a sloppy red paint job. Now I agree the box is old and original, but that outside paint appears to be a lot newer.

 

[wonkapete]

I have several boxes from turn of the century and they simply didn't have stencil look to them. Here's one I bought from Petretti years ago, it's actually pictured in his book.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Wonka ~

Thanks. I hear what you're saying. By the way, do you have a closeup photo of the latch on your case? Below is the one on the case I have been looking at. I can't quite make out the details on your's, but they look real similar.

SPBOB

 

[wonkapete]

Yep, it's the same type of latch.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

wonka ~

Thanks. That's interesting. But I'm not sure what it tells us. Maybe nothing. I think it's mysteries like this that make collecting - researching, and everything that goes with the hobby so worthwhile. It's too bad I can't get my hands on that case for about $50.00. I'd be willing to gamble at least that much no matter how old the dang thing might be. But I just know someone else is going to end up with it. Oh well, there are more fish in the sea. Right?

Thanks again,

Bob

 

[splante]

Hi soda pop
I think the type of nail used shows some evidence of it being around the 20's. looks like a round wire nail which first were used around 1915.The boxes construction to me anyway seems to fall into that time frame of 20's to 30's No expert but if the nails were square or rectangular shape it would date earlier. You can still buy square nails today but you can tell the diffrence of the Modern machine made ones. compared to the pre 1910 ones .below an excerpt from believe it or not... the history of nails



"1820 -1910 (machine made square and rectangular nails )which is consider the peak manufacture and use of this type nail. According to a couple of sources, nails were first made by blacksmiths who hammered them into shape (dating back to Roman times), then they were cut from sheets of metal and finally by machines that tapered them and created the flat rectangular heads.

After about 1920, wire nails (round) came into use. They were cheaper and much faster to make since they could be completely made by machine. Interestingly, the old square nails can hold more than four times better than the more modern round ones. Some of the old square nails were so valuable that old buildings were burned down just to retrieve the nails."

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

splante ~

Thanks. But now I'm wondering (speculating) if the Inland bottling people didn't just buy up a bunch of old second-hand (turn of the century) cases and then slap some red paint and their own stenciled name on them? That would explain both the sloppy paint job and the latch. As for the nails, I really can't say. But what you say makes sense, too. Who knows? I sure don't! []

SPBOB

 

[celerycola]

A hundred years ago the National Bottler's Gazette and Southern Carbonator & Bottler had numerous articles from and for bottlers on keeping track of their bottles and cases. Most bottlers numbered their cases and many even noted the case# delivered on their invoice. 404 was likely the tracking number of this particular box. (It is just coincidence that 404 was the ROOT mold number for the Coca-Cola Hutch from Birmingham)

Cases with lids were more expensive and not typically used for local delivery by the bottler. They were used for out-of-town deliveries by train or other common carrier where it would have been easy for someone to steal a free drink from an open case.

Since Standardization didn't come until 1929 (at the beginning of the Great Depression) I suspect it was several years before most bottlers had switched to the new paint scheme. This crate could easily date to the 1930's.

I see crates from this period in this condition priced from $50 to $100. The lid is a nice feature and adds some value. It comes down to what you're willing to pay.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Celery ~

You and the others have all contributed some very valid points, and ones that cannot be ignored. And I agree with them all the way down the line. When I added the words "who knows" to my last reply, I meant it as a literal question that I am glad you responded to. It's obvious that I need help here in more ways than one. (No pun intended). []

If I were a history detective (like the TV program on the PBS channel) I think the next thing I would do would be to do some extensive research on the box itself. Which would involve (if possible) to try and determine exactly when it was made. I would start with the latch and hinges and see if a date could be established as to when they were first used, as well as when they were last used. I would also research in detail the nails and wood itself. If (big IF) it were determined that these materials were in fact turn of the century, then I would move on to researching the company who made the case. We already know the company was established in 1883, so I would start with that date and then move forward from there.

I think everyone knows where I am going with this. So rather than drag it out any farther, I will jump right to the punch line. Which is ... There is a "possibility" that the case may have been constructed before the Inland Coca Cola Bottling Co. of Boise, Idaho obtained it. With another "possibility" that they standardized it (in 1929 or later as Celercola said) by re-painting it and applying their stenciled name to it. Which brings us full circle the the "quandary" part of the title. Meaning ... let's say it is a 1910 (or thereabouts) case with a 1930s revamping done to it. Where does this place it as far as a genuine Coca Cola collectible is concerned? Personally, I think it would make it just that much more interesting, but certainly not worth top dollar as wonkapete's case would be that is original and not tampered with.

Please note that I am not trying to make something out of nothing here. I have no vested interest and the likelyhood of my purchasing the case at this point is slim to none. And if it were to be offered to me, I think the most I would pay at this point would be about $75.00 (maybe $100.00).

And in conclusion, the one thing more than anything else that still confuses me, is in regards to the test I did with the three bottles. The 1915 hobbleskirt was simply too tall for the box, and if it contained a total of 24 botles, I honestly feel it would be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to close and latch the lid properly. ???

Maybe we should call the "History Detectives" and have them take a look at it. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

Thanks for letting me ramble. I hope my observations are considered valid as well as interesting.

SPBOB