Digging at the Whitall Tatum factory?

[surfaceone]

There was a mold of Binney's DV bronze, one of Binney's 51C iron, one made on Kelley #4 mold iron, one made of Nodular iron, one made of Overmyer's bronze and I would have to get into old notes to find the other metals. 

Hello RED,

Sounds as if you're at the top of your game, again. I'm very pleased to see you so engaged. You're the only guy I know who can discuss "Malcomized iron cavities."

I'm sorry to say, that all of the above is, I don't even know how many feet, over my head. Metallurgy makes my head swim.

*********

How's your glass chemistry equation working today? [8D] I'm talking 19th Century production, like Lockport, Pittsburgh, Jersey, et al. Were there appreciably different batch glass "formulas" from area to area, for any given color?

Yes I know Lockport made other colors of glass. They also ran a well controlled clean operation because their glass was always good looking stuff.

Why is the Lockport Green so distinctive, compared to other green wares? Their Cobalt is pretty bold, as well. The West Coast guys are deservedly chauvinistic about Pacific Glass Works bottles and their clarity and depth of color. The West coast guys sometimes speak of the sand used as the "Secret ingredient." May some of that sand have been imported?

What about 7 Up green, while we're at it.

Chris got me thinking on this track when he said,

I think another reason why these bottles may not be surviving is the glass chemistry between modern art glass and antique bottle glass. I don't think most modern art glass would be very well suited for mold blowing by hand.

and then he said,

The more I think about what I have read and what I believe I know about 18th and 19th century glass making the more I realize that the picture is very far from complete. Much of the process involved seem to have been lost to history and as such must be reinvented by the modern collector to offer a more complete understanding of how the bottles we collect were manufactured.

The only way to do this is through experimentation based off of physical evidence present on the bottles themselves and through archaelolgy evidence from early glass houses. I think we may all be surprised at how complex the process of making glass and molds and blowing bottles actually is without modern equipment. This is likely why the secret of making glass was closely guarded...

Would the early glass houses have had chemists on staff to adjust the batch? Or would that have been the purview of the chief glassmaker? Would they have used solid moulds like Matt's

as mould warmers and/or quality / color control tools?

How much of an effect on the bottles would the quality / chemical composition of the sand have had? Was it they key ingredient of Bixby or Ball Blue? Was wood ash critical?

RED, you've forgotten more than I'll ever know about bottle making. Can you shed some light on my poorly asked questions? If, so, please give it the slightly smarter than a 5th Grader treatment. [8D]

We just no longer see the range of color, the thickness of the glass, the remarkable mould making artistry in today's glass objects. We're poorer for it. T'is a wonder to dig or find the mysteriously wonderful glass objects of an earlier time.

Forest glass

 

[JOETHECROW]

We just no longer see the range of color, the thickness of the glass, the remarkable mould making artistry in today's glass objects. We're poorer for it. T'is a wonder to dig or find the mysteriously wonderful glass objects of an earlier time.

Best I've heard it put.

 

[RED Matthews]

For baltbottles question. Yes cavity lubricants were used.

You asked about mold swabbing and release agents. Again based on what was done when I worked at Thatcher Glass. There was a family of glass people that were key members of Thatcher Glass operation. One of the family, RED Listen – I think it was; had a swab making shop in NY State. These wire handle tools had a clump of cotton strings in the working end of it. It was kept in a box having dry powder sulfur in it. The cotton head was twisted in the powder and then the machine operator would hit it into the mold cavity where the glass was sticking or not releasing right. The machine operators would get white gym sneakers and cut the souls into strips of the white rubber that they could hold in a set of tongs and rub in an open mold cavity where the glass wasn’t releasing properly. There were three or four companies that also sold the glass factories special oils that were used as swabbing aids. At today’s machine operating speeds, this practice would be difficult. RED Matthews

 

[JOETHECROW]

Why is the Lockport Green so distinctive, compared to other green wares? Their Cobalt is pretty bold, as well. The West Coast guys are deservedly chauvinistic about Pacific Glass Works bottles and their clarity and depth of color. The West coast guys sometimes speak of the sand used as the "Secret ingredient." May some of that sand have been imported?

Surf,...great question (although I realize it wasn't directed to me...) Still got me curious enough to reread Bill Lindsey's explanation...

In order to create other colors, the iron needs to be variably neutralized and appropriate colorizing agents or compounds added to achieve the desired color. For instance, cobalt oxide added in proper quantities to a properly prepared glass batch results in a distinctly intense blue as shown in the bottle to the left. In fact, this color is known as "cobalt blue" in the glass manufacturing world (Scholes 1952).
Glass composition formulas were (and probably still are) closely held glassmaker secrets as the experience of extensive trial and error experimentation in glass making was not readily shared with others. Variations in glass color resulted from a myriad of different causes including the strata of the sand source, the mineral in the soil of the of the trees burned to produce "potash" (an "flux" alternative to soda), and many others known and unknown (Toulouse 1969a). Many colorizing compounds work in different ways depending on whether the glass pot environment is oxidizing or reducing (Tooley 1953; Kendrick 1968).
However, discussing the simple addition of chemical additives makes any discussion of glass making and glass coloring too simplistic. Glass chemistry is a complex science that is beyond the goals of this website and will not be pursued here. For one who wishes to pursue this subject, Tooley's (editor & one of the chapter authors) 1953 book "Hand Book of Glass Manufacture Volume 1 - A book of reference for the plant executive, technologist and engineer" is recommended though possibly hard to find.

 

[AntiqueMeds]

Another problem with a mold that is too hot is the glass may stick to its surface. And the bottle won't release properly. Which could seriously damage the mold. I have seen blow pipes with glass literally bonded to their tip. I assume this is due to being exposed to the extreme heat of the furnace. Was some form of release agent used to help prevent bottles from sticking to the mold? Perhaps powdered graphite?

I expect this was part of "learning how to do it right". The mold needed to be not too cold and not too hot to work well.
Graphite was long known as a high temp release agent. They might have used it starting up the mold but once they got going it seems like it would take too long to keep applying very often...if thats what you were implying.
Although you do see glass blowers rolling gathers on graphite blocks, not sure if any would stay on the glass as the pipe is stuck in the mold?? I doubt they would want anything mucking up the mold walls.
I was wondering how in the world they kept vent holes from getting clogged. They seem like they would be real trouble if they glass was too hot/fluid .

 

[Oldihtractor]

some glass blowing demos here the guy commentating lives not far from me ... they also did some flasks and some insect destroyers at the btsto show 2 years ago..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wz05vPvIrCA

 

[JOETHECROW]

Pretty cool that they have the portable glass furnace on the back of that truck trailer combo...

 

[RedGinger]

ORIGINAL: RED Matthews

Red Ginger The Whitall Tatum factory was in New Jersey near Philadelphia PA. Lockport is a town up near the Erie Canal and Syracuse. It was a very successful glass house that made some neat green glass bottles. RED Matthews

Thanks, Red. I know where Lockport is, just wondered where the site of their glassworks might have been. I love Lockport glass! Really beautiful.

 

[RedGinger]

ORIGINAL: AntiqueMeds

Glass blowers wear didymium lense glasses. They protect against UV, bright yellow , and IR (heat)

Thanks for answering that, Matt. I would not like to hear accounts of the effects on glassblowers' eyes in the past. I bet there are some horror stories there.

 

[RedGinger]

ORIGINAL: Wheelah23

ORIGINAL: JOETHECROW

Red has some pretty extensive knowledge of metallurgy,and bottle molds,.... perhaps not as far back as to the dates in question here though....

Geez, he ain't that old! [8D]

LOL!