EARLIEST OWENS-ILLINOIS SODA BOTTLE MARK (NON-ACL)

[SODAPOPBOB]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

P.S. ~

I forgot to emphasize the part in the paragraph where it states ... "immediately popular." This suggest to me they "immediately" began the acl process in 1931 ... and likely no later than 1932. ???

SPBOB

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

Another aspect of my current research involves the dots vs no-dots theory as seen on the base photo below. The picture is the base of a (Indian Club/Maid) "ColaRootBeer" with the Owens-Illinois mark 20 <(I)> 1. Notice the big-fat dot!

If you take another look at the chart I posted back on page 5, you will see where plant number 20 was originally for Brackenridge, Pennsylvania, which closed in 1937 and was reassigned that same year to a newly acquired plant in Oakland, California. My ColaRootBeer bottle is an acl and just happens to be from Oakland, Ca. So I know in this case that it is a 1941 bottle.

But what I'm wondering (and it's way too early to draw any conclusions yet) is if the dots after some (if not all) of the single-digit numbers may have something to do with "reassigned" plant locations and not just the date or a quality control aspect? Has anyone ever looked at it from this perspective? I haven't until just now. But it may be worth looking into. Someone may be able to immediately prove this possibility as false ... but on the other hand, maybe not. When you get the time, please check the dots on some of your acl bottles and see if you can find any connection between the dots and the reassignment dates from the chart on page 5. This may be much to do about nothing, but it "might" just be a missing link that will shed some more light on the dot/no-dot mystery.

Thanks.

SPBOB

20 <(I)> 1. = Oakland, California 1941 ~ But is the dot for the date or for the reassignment location? (or both?)

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

Here's the chart again so you won't have to click back to page 5 for it. I printed it out and now have a copy of it tacked to my wall behind my computer. (Note: I just developed this new theory of mine last night, so please bare with mean if it seems outrageous). Thanks. SPB

 

[morbious_fod]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

I recently purchased a industry magazine by the name Bottling Industry from November 1952. The interesting thing about this magazine is that it is a special issue which gives the history of the industry, brands, and the affiliated industries. This of course includes the glass makers. The odd thing is that they credit the creation of the applied label, they call it "Pyroglaze" which is another term for the process that gets thrown around, to Thatcher Glass of Elmira, NY in 1932. This is the maker of the Wedge Wall brand of bottle. Having just purchased a milk bottle from Kingsport, Tennessee with the same glass mark on it, I wonder if this process was originally created for Milks. I haven't seen very many sodas from this company this early on, although I have some from the 1950's created by them. There is no mention in the Owens Illinois article about their ACL process; however, the Jumbo A Super Cola bottles I have seen are from Owens Illinois.

As to the meaning of ACL, If you look at the earliest examples they are mostly one color and usually only letters, eventually as they were able to do more with the process I'm sure the name of the process changed to labels. As for the possiblity that these single digits are earlier, one thing I have observed is that there is a distinct difference between the acls of the 1930's and of the 1940's. They go from a dull thin look to a vibrant and thicker look around 1938, so if they are vibrant instead of dull and thin looking, they are most likely very late 1930's into the 1940's. Not a strict rule of course, just a general observation over time.

 

[morbious_fod]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB

Another aspect of my current research involves the dots vs no-dots theory as seen on the base photo below. The picture is the base of a (Indian Club/Maid) "ColaRootBeer" with the Owens-Illinois mark 20 <(I)> 1. Notice the big-fat dot!

If you take another look at the chart I posted back on page 5, you will see where plant number 20 was originally for Brackenridge, Pennsylvania, which closed in 1937 and was reassigned that same year to a newly acquired plant in Oakland, California. My ColaRootBeer bottle is an acl and just happens to be from Oakland, Ca. So I know in this case that it is a 1941 bottle.

But what I'm wondering (and it's way too early to draw any conclusions yet) is if the dots after some (if not all) of the single-digit numbers may have something to do with "reassigned" plant locations and not just the date or a quality control aspect? Has anyone ever looked at it from this perspective? I haven't until just now. But it may be worth looking into. Someone may be able to immediately prove this possibility as false ... but on the other hand, maybe not. When you get the time, please check the dots on some of your acl bottles and see if you can find any connection between the dots and the reassignment dates from the chart on page 5. This may be much to do about nothing, but it "might" just be a missing link that will shed some more light on the dot/no-dot mystery.

Thanks.

SPBOB

20 <(I)> 1. = Oakland, California 1941 ~ But is the dot for the date or for the reassignment location? (or both?)

Most of my bottles with dots and without come from #3 Fairmont WV which was never reassigned.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

Morb ~

Thanks. Your information is very helpful. So based on your plant #3 Fairmont, West Virginia bottle observation, I am going to eliminate the possibly of the dots being connected to reassignments. The problem I'm having is that about 90% of my acls are double-digit without dots, which makes it hard for me to do any accurate comparisions. But now, thanks to you, this kills that theory. Which is fine, and I will just move on to the acl process research.

If you recall from my "Earliest ACLs" thread, we came up with a "confirmed" acl milk bottle made by Kolb's Dairy which was a Thatcher bottle dated 1934. (See pic below). But this was the earliest we were able to confirm.

But I'm still thinking that maybe, just maybe, there are some 1931 to 1934 acl soda bottles out there, and will use your "faded label" possibility as a place to start. So if anyone has a single-digit Owens-Illinois bottle, both dot and no dot, marked 1 thru 4, and it has an extremely faded label, please share it with us for closer examination.

Thanks a lot.

SPB

[Kolb's Dairy milk bottle ~ Confirmed by the Bottle Research Group as being made in 1934 ]

3E4 is for Thatcher Glass ~ Elvira, New York ~ 1934

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

And here is the "Extremely Faded" label of the 1934 Kolb's Dairy 1934 acl milk bottle.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

P.S. ~

For those interested in this latest search for acls, please don't bother with the single-digit 5s and later, as we have already confirmed in my "Earliest ACLs" thread from over a year ago that there are a quite a few 1935 acls. The focucs this time is with the single-digit 1s thru 4s. That is unless you happen to have a single-digit 9 (non acl) that you think is for 1929. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

And speaking of "Hoot," have a fun and safe Halloween.

SODA"BOO"BOB []

 

[morbious_fod]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

Not what I meant. Not a faded label but a duller thinner label. How about an example to clarify. This is my 1938 Rums Dry from Bluefield, VA, note that the labe is in great condition, it's just that is has a duller look.....

 

[morbious_fod]

RE: Here's your Missing Link from 1930

As compared to it's 1940 sibling, same brand, same bottling company, same glass maker, stark contrast in the brightness of the acl between the 1938 and the 1940.