Help dating this Gulden's Mustard Jar with Label?

[cyberdigger]

The jar is almost identical to this one, which I always figured at around 1890 but never gave it much thought..

 

[cyberdigger]

base

 

[GuntherHess]

ORIGINAL: jdhiller

@GuntherHess: Wondering, would it be surprising for a shoestring budget startup to be using excess bottle stock for his new venture? I think it's possible. I can understand your statement about branding for a more established Gulden's years later.

Its possible. Its often hard to judge bottles without holding them in your hands.
If its a tooled lip, i'd say ,no ,its probably not early enough.
If its an applied lip you should be able to put your finger inside the neck and feel a ridge where the extra glass was added. A tooled lip with be smooth in the neck. Also the seam on a tooled lip wont come all the way up to the bottom of the lip because the lipping tool wipes it smooth below the lip. Tell me its an applied lip and that would start moving me towards your position.
Since the known early Guldens were large barrel style it seems a bit odd they would use this smaller bottle.
Also it would be useful knowing who C & L was. I couldn't find anything on them.

 

[botlguy]

All in all a very interesting discussion. I am posting to simply follow the replies It's a simple jar worth a couple of bucks w/o the label but with it makes it worth investigating. In this case the label ADDS to it's value rather than detracts.

 

[cowseatmaize]

Can you take a picture from the side of the seams? To me it has that look of thickness and bubble inclusion of early ABM's.
And yes, paste over was common, especially during and near after economic depressions such as the 1893 one. Did you make a rubbing of the mark behind the label or is that just what you feel and see?
Just thinking.

 

[glass man]

The gold on the label fits in with the late 1890s "GILDED AGE" look ..so I think it is from around 1890'-1910 at the most and a very cool looking jar..I would say 15 bucks at the most..just from a non food jar collector's thought...really curious if it is machine made ..I would bet my "reputation " [[8D][][]] it ain't!!JAMIE

 

[jdhiller]

Thanks to all for replies, and regrets for the long wait on follow-up.

@cowseatmaize & others - Here's some more photos, the arrows show the spot where the seem totally disappears. The C&L was shot through the back of the bottle, and I flipped it in photoshop for reading. While the C is a bit bigger than the L, I think that what is pictured seems a bit exaggerated.

@GuntherHess - inside of lip is smooth with little roughness, I would have to say it was tooled and not applied.

@cyberdigger - yes, similar in shape, with some differences.

In all, if the earliest bottles were barrel shaped, then perhaps this is one of the earliest of the new shape, as cyberdigger postulates. Gulden ran some test batches with this "borrowed" bottle style at some point, liked it, and began to produce his own?

I think the company that owns Gulden's needs to own this bottle, perhaps it fills a unique niche in their company history and collection...

 

[botlguy]

Jim Hiller. I hope you stick around. Your presentation and literacy is excellent. This has been interesting investigation / research. FUN !