Hoping to learn about Frostie-like bottle found in crawl space

[shadeone]

There is a 1945 “taste treat” bottle archived here:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/acl-soda-bottle-frostie-taste-treat-3914863601
Shows the base but not clear. I know I’ve seen another one clearer on Facebook.

 

[SODABOB]

Thanks Shade

In order to put a "cap" on this discussion I suppose it would help if we could fill the gap between this 1939 "Nichol Kola" ad and this 1944 "Old Fashion Root Beer" ad. I'm not sure what's out there, but there's gotta be something?

Bob

P.S. Notice they appear to be identical bottles?

 

[SODABOB]

P.S.

One thing the previous Nichol Kola ad didn't mention - that is in this other ad from 1939 - are the words "Distributed By." It could be that the Catonsville Bottling Co. didn't actually bottle "Nichol Kola" at the time, but was only a distributor. There's a difference! Hmm ... ???

Bob

 

[shadeone]

Nichol Kola was created in Baltimore in the late 20s / early 30s. My guess is that since Catonsville is pretty much 5 minutes outside Baltimore, they were just another bottling company that got a Nichol franchise.

I found this 1944 Catonsville Bottling bottle on ebay last night.

I'm guessing they maybe used paper labels in the early years for the majority of their beverages, hence the bottle styles being the same between Nichol and Frostie. Or Nichol didn't care about the bottle style as long as their main design could fit on it and Catonsville Bottling just used the type they had on hand. Catonsville's other beverages (Tasty etc) all share the similiar squat style.
I have yet to see a surviving early "old fashion root beer" paper label bottle (if they exist), just unused later "Frostie" labels themselves (and a few bottles that look like fakes where the seller clearly used a old stock label on a generic beer bottle). The old unused stock paper labels I have seen all have a 1947 copyright date on them.

There's even the chance that they didn't use labels at all before the franchise years, just the bottles with the Catonsville embossed on the neck area and different crown caps to indicate flavor...

 

[shadeone]

Did some digging on the TESS trademark site (https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=tess&state=4809:eg61gu.1.1)
and found numerous applications for Frostie with various conflicting dates....


First use - June, 1942
In commerce - October, 1944:

Same as above:

First use - 08-25-44
In commerce - 04-0-1946

Same as above:

First use - November, 1944
In commerce - April, 1946 (August 25, 1944 as to "Frostie")

I'm assuming this one specifically is in reference to the use of the new design with the bubble letters AND the elf logo
First Use, October, 1955
In commerce - November, 1955 (August 25, 1944 as to "Frostie")

This one has the lettering that matches the green "Taste Treat" flavor bottles and would correspond to when they got rid of the Catonsville name off the front and franchised it to other places in 1947
First use - March 27, 1947
In commerce - May 10, 1947

 

[SODABOB]

Shade - Great stuff!

Now I'm wondering if "Old Fashion Root Beer" was actually related to Frostie. Take another look at the bottle, as well as the 1944 ad, and you will see that neither one of them indicate any connection to Frostie. I realize the bottle and the ad both have labels that are very similar to the Frostie bottle with the profile of a lady's head, and yet neither of them indicate a Frostie or Baltimore connection. In other words, I'm wondering if Catonsville Bottling was trying to get away with a knock-off brand in the beginning? Please note that I haven't forgotten about the snippet where it said Catonsville Bottling "was granted Frostie Franchise No. 1 back in 1939." However, if that is actually what took place, then why doesn't the Old Fashion bottle and the 1944 Old Fashion ad say anything about Frostie? If Catonsville Bottling was a franchisee you would think that the Frostie Company would require them to use the word Frostie and not just Old Fashion. ???

Bob

 

[SODABOB]

Shade

There is another blank "Catonsville Bottling" bottle on eBay that I am trying to buy from the seller. The seller sent me a photo of the base that they claim is a 42 for 1942. I saw the one that you posted with the 44 on the base - this one appears to be identical except for the date. I will let you know if I get it or not. The seller said they would let me know today.

Bob

 

[SODABOB]

This pertains to the 1939 Nichol Kola "Distributed By" vs "Bottled By"

1939 Ad -Catonsville Bottling = Distributed By
1939 Ad - Wood's Beverages = Bottled By

The question is; Did Catonsville Bottling actually bottle Nichol Kola or just distribute it in 1939?

Bob

 

[SODABOB]

I wonder where this Frostie "Old Time" Root Beer bottle fits into the scheme of things? It's the only one I have been able to find and know nothing about it. This was the only photo and the description did not say where it was from, who bottled it, or when. ???

Bob

 

[shadeone]

That "old time" bottle isn't. That is just a standard late 1950s bottle with the paint rubbed off of the "fashion" word. You can still see the cross part of the letter "F"... They didn't start putting the Frostie logo on the neck until the late 50s.


With regards to the timeline:

I don't think the "Frostie" word actually was used until late 1944. A few of the trademark registrations above specifically say: ("August 25, 1944 as to "Frostie").

My belief would be that the whole operation was started in the jail / firehouse by George Rackepsnerger and Joseph Nitsch in 1939, bottling "old fashion root beer" without a specific bottle, possibly just generic beer bottles, selling very limited locally, then in 1942 they moved into the Catonsville Bottling building at 6426 Edmondson Avenue. This is probably when they got the slick sided "Catonsville Bottling" embossed neck bottles and used paper labels. I would think this is also when they got a franchise for Nichol Kola (and that style of squat bottle) that many of the stories refer to as "their first beverage / nickel-soda". (Still not sure on the "distributed" or "bottled" by thing, but my guess would be bottled as they were a bottling company at that time.)

I'm guessing some time in 1942 to 1944 they got a batch of the "Old Fashion" ACL bottles made without the Frostie name, decided on the name "Frostie" in 1944 (according to multiple examples in the trademark registrations) and had the first batches of "Frostie" labeled bottles made some time between 1944-1946. The earliest confirmed ACL "Frostie" labeled bottle seen so far is 1946 and they officially made the "Frostie Company" in 1947.
The 1947 dated letter previously posted here: https://www.antique-bottles.net/attachments/old-fashion-1947-letter-jpg.247474/
shows that the "partnership" business between George Rackensperger and Joseph Nitsch was dissolved, and officially taken over by Catonsville Bottling. This is when the "Frostie Company" officially started and when they started selling franchises nationwide.

The article blurb listing "Catonsville Bottling as the first franchisee in 1939" probably just means that the official "partnership" company with George Rackensperger and Joseph Nitsch "franchised" their root beer idea to be bottled somwehere specifically, and that somewhere was Catonsville Bottling at the jailhouse.
I take the little history blurbs like that from National Bottlers Gazette with a grain of salt and I would chalk this one up to the reporter twisting words as Frostie wasn't actually franchised until 8 years later...