Hoping to learn about Frostie-like bottle found in crawl space

[SODABOB]

BIG question ...

If Frostie Old Fashion Root Beer originated in 1939, then why does this 1944 ad say Old Fashion Root Beer without the word Frostie? Not to mention member justonebottle's bottle and a couple of others like it?

Bob

 

[shadeone]

I personally think "Old Fashion" and "Frostie Old Fashion" are the same root beer. They have to be. There's too much connection between Catonsville Bottling, George Rackensperger, "Old Fashion" and "Frostie" for them to not all be related / the same thing.

While there is currently no proof of the "Frostie" word itself being on any material or bottles prior to 1946, the "Frostie" trademark documents specifically say "In commerce - April, 1946 (August 25, 1944 AS TO "Frostie")". The "as to" would be in specific reference to the word "Frostie" itself and most likely means that they added the "Frostie" to the "Old Fashion" on August 25th, 1944. (And why the 1944 ad you posted doesn't have the "Frostie" word on it yet)

I would think that "Old Fashion" officially commercially turned into "Frostie Old Fashion" in April of 1946, per the trademark documents, shortly before the 1947 formation of the official "Frostie Company" under the "corporation of the Catonsville Bottling Company". This might be why the earliest "Frostie" worded bottle found so far is from 1946.

- The "Old Fashion" and "Frostie Old Fashion" bottles are literally the same shape, size, color, font, layout and wording, with the exception of the "Frostie" word
- The "Old Fashion" bottles are from Catonsville bottling
- The official "Frostie Company" was formed at Catonsville Bottling
- George Rackensperger was "part owner" of Catonsville Bottling and later became the president of the Frostie Company.
- George Rackensperger's and Joseph Nitsch's names are both on the 1947 letter with "Old Fashion" / Catonsville Bottling letterhead, describing their "previous partnership" being taken over at Catosnville.

I think when people reference "Frostie Old Fashion Root Beer" being made in 1939, it includes "Old Fashion" but the NAME Frostie didn't come into play until 1944 as a trademark and 1946 in official commerce. The product itself was in existence (as Old Fashion) but no one CALLED it Frostie until late 1944. Now when it is referenced as "Frostie" and people say things like "Frostie has been bottled since 1939", the history encompasses the earlier product. It's like people saying something like "RC Cola" was invented in 1905 even though it was Chero-Cola then and only turned into / named RC Cola in 1934.

 

[SODABOB]

Thanks Shade = Great Synopsis

I acknowledge that I'm splitting hairs concerning Frostie verses Old Fashion. I also acknowledge they were the same product. However, it seems that no matter how we slice it, whether it's from trademark records, ads, etc; the earliest we have been able to come up with for ANY brand of Root Beer by Cantonsville Bottling is 1942 thru 1944. Even the earliest reference to Old Fashion we have been able to find is from 1944. If they made and bottled an earlier brand of Root Beer I'm at a loss as to what it was called. Tasty? Or possibly some other name? I really can't say! As to the 1939 origin date, that is another thorn in my side. Sure, the bottling operation began at that time and we know they bottled Nichol Kola from the get-go, but so far that seems to be all we know about the first year or two.

Regarding your comment ...

" Now when it is referenced as "Frostie" and people say things like "Frostie has been bottled since 1939", the history encompasses the earlier product."

What "earlier" product? Are we aware of an earlier Root Beer? If so what was it called? And how early?

I guess the primary points I am trying to make are twofold ...

1. The bottling operation began in 1939.
2. They should not claim that Frostie originated in 1939 if it didn't.

Bob

 

[shadeone]

By “earlier product” I meant just “old fashion” root beer without the Frostie name.

I see what you are saying in that there is absolutely no reference or proof to even just the “old fashion” existing in the early years though. The hunt continues! I’d like to believe the accepted overall history that has been shared is relatively correct but the 1939 date with relation to the root beer specifically has yet to be officially confirmed.

Don’t get me started on people using the “since 19__” line on products. There’s a certain bottler in Washington right now that bottles glass bottle cane sugar versions of various old soda brands. The majority of them have some sort of “since 19__” tag line on the label but what the bottler actually does is purchase old expired soda brand trademarks and just creates an entirely new soda that “resembles” what the old version used to taste like. The “since” line on the label doesn’t specifically say “same formula since 19__” so technically it could mean “same trademark” and they can get away with it. They have even created entirely brand new flavors for some of the brands but still have the “since” tagline on the bottled. Try finding any reference to “O-So Butterscotch Root Beer” (since 1946 on the label) before 2000 hahah! I’ll give them credit though because they actually are bottling some actual old school sodas for the original people and using the original formulas (bubble up, moxie etc)

 

[shadeone]

Not that it helps with the early history timeline, but I found the existence of three photographs of the "new" Catonsville bottling plant from 1946 here:
https://mdhistory.libraryhost.com/repositories/2/archival_objects/237548
Unfortunately they are not viewable online so I am submitting a request to get copies!

Edit: Nevermind, the fees per image are insane...

 

[SODABOB]

Shade

Thanks for trying. Too bad the fees are so high. The photos would have been interesting to see. I have run across similar snags over the years. Maybe the attached images will be the next best thing. The 1925 Sanborn map was the latest one I could find - nothing available from the 1940s. Use the Sanborn map and the newspaper text to orientate the 1939 aerial view. I think I have located the approximate location (Fire / Police) on the aerial but I'm not sure. Nor am I sure if the bottling plant was located in the Police Jail / Fire House or where it was. I believe most accounts say something about a basement location. Maybe you know for certain and can educate us.

P.S.
I forgot to mention that the location of the Bottling plant is at 22 Bloomsbury Avenue - which is the same location as the Fire Dept. Station #5 on the 1925 Sanborn map.

Bob

 

[SODABOB]

Tasty Bottle Update ...

Like I said earlier, I cannot find another one like it anywhere. I also searched for the Reg. but could not find anything for that either - and I'm not sure what it pertains to - but possibly the brand name, trademark, or some connection with Catonsville Bottling. Even though I don't want to jump the gun just yet, based on my inability to find another one, nor even a reference to one, I am temporarily deeming it as the only known example. If something surfaces to refute this I will categorize it accordingly. I will post another update when it arrives in about a week. I'm hoping it's a 1941 but we will have to wait and see. I also attached the 1956 Frostie trademark document that shadeone posted earlier. Notice where it disclaims the words "Tasty" "Creamy" "Root Beer" and "You'll Love It." Apparently those words were too generic to be granted a trademark - which makes me wonder what the REG. refers to on my Tasty bottle. ???

Bob

 

[Bad3555]

Excellent research my friends!l, lots of great info here! Thank you @SODABOB and @shadeone !!

 

[shadeone]

Sodabob,
Great aerial and maps!!! I too remember hearing about the basement location thing somewhere. The one site that was found with the family history that included some Rackensperger stuff stated:
"Inside they set up bottling equipment and conveyor belts. The judge's benches served as the office desks, the syrup room was set up in the old jail cells and the bottling department in the old fire department."
Sounds like they spread out comfortably in there hah

Your embossed Tasty bottle does seem to be the only one around. I can't find any others after some extensive digging.

My own personal theory now is that Catonsville Bottling started in 1939 in the jail / fire station bottling the Nichol ("nickel-soda") franchise first and within a year or two they were experimenting with their own flavors and selling them under the "Tasty" brand / the embossed bottle you found, and then later in the red and white ACL bottle we have seen posted in this thread, giving their root beer flavor it's own "Old Fashion Root Beer" ACL bottle, as that was quickly becoming their biggest seller.

I still have a hunch that "Tasty" later became the "Taste Treat" flavor line in the mid 40s.

 

[shadeone]

Here's something interesting... Looks like George Rackensperger worked for the "Caton Spring Water Co"in 1936

This is from the 1936 issue of the "Proceedings of the 54th Annual Meeting of the Maryland Pharmaceutical Association" by the Maryland Pharmaceutical Association