Oct/Nov Privy dig in Upstate NY

[RED Matthews]

Hi Sandchip. I couldn't agree with you more about the ridiculous waste of time and effort trying to apply a patch of glass over a blow-out hole in the bottle. It just wouldn't be possible to have hot flat pieces of glass waiting to be put on a blow-out, especially when it would be impossible to push it into a hot bottle in process.

I wondered if you have read my blog on the homepage http://www.bottlemysteries.com/contents There I have shown a Mineral Water Bottle with the Half-Leaf repair on the body of the bottle and also on the neck of the same bottles. There is just no way this could have been accomplished with flaps of glass on a hot bottle.

I have worked on samples of this type of mark for over five years now and even spent a lot of time with the American Curator of Bottles at the Corning Glass Museu Im and the Museum's Library. I haven't seen the recent Saratoga Mineral Water Bottle we found with two half-leaf markes, one over the other in the large X form. I will be given an opportunity this summer to get my hands on that one and take some pictures of it.

I also have four othere bottles to check out this next summer. I have to agree with you - wouldn't it be great to visit with some one from 1850 that were in the know of things.
Thanks, RED Matthews

 

[sandchip]

So maybe we've dispensed with the bottle hole repair theory? Now, what about the mold repair theory? Read my last post very carefully, especially the last part beginning with, "Now the real clincher lies..." Very tough to explain in words; one of those situations where you about need to handle a bottle while talking. Better yet, if we could just blow a bottle after intentionally pinching the parison between the mold halves.

Almost as common as the defects being discussed here, is another method of handling the pinched parison, that being to just go ahead and blow the bottle, then either leave or chip away the fin or flap of glass from the mold line on the finished bottle. We see these bottles on the market fairly often, many times described as "chipped away glass that leaked through the seam". Once again, something as viscous as molten glass is not going to leak through a 1/16" mold gap, but rather must be pinched between the mold halves.

The sodas at the top of page 2 should dispense with mold repair theory as well. First, the defect is in two different spots. Secondly, an end mill would not leave a recurved or ogee line, but rather a simple arc of a set radius.

If bottles with these defects were indeed the result of a repaired mold, then by now, surely we would've seen other examples with the same mark, of the same size and texture, and in the exact same spot on bottles as common as the mineral waters, barrel bitters, and the Wishart's.

 

[sandchip]

Mr. Matthews, could you tell me if the black Saratoga A Spring (beautiful bottle, by the way) pictured on your website was blown in a post-bottom mold, and even post a picture of the base if possible? Thanks.

 

[sandchip]

A picture of that base would really put this debate to rest, Mr. Matthews, if you can oblige. Frankly, the picture of the barrel does the trick, too, if one visualizes what's taking place as the bottle was being blown into the mold, sorta slow-motion-wise.

 

[sandchip]

Since the blue Wynkoop's on eBay has revived this half-leaf mold repair vs. pinched parison debate, I'm bumping this thread, in hopes that somebody out there might read and actually digest and visualize what I said in regards to this subject. Saves a lot of typing too.

 

[baltbottles]

Jimbo,

I completely agree with the pinched flap theory. And my offer still stands if someone out there has a fairly common saratoga or other bottle with this type of mark. I'm willing to buy it to cut it in half for a cross section view that will show conclusively that these are a pinched flap of glass that is folded over flat.

Chris

 

[sandchip]

Thanks, Chris.