Pepsi-cola / deco / basket-weave / soda bottle design pattern

[T D]

Who knows, maybe the guy who first used the term "wave" actually meant "weave" but it was a typo of some kind and he either misspelled it or accidently forgot to include the 'e'

So with this said, I've decided to rewrite history and am now officially calling it ...

I really don't know why I even respond anymore to these statements. I read this last night at about eleven. I had for three hours previously been broadcasting a high school football game on the radio. My job for the actual 48 minutes of the game is to let those not in attendance know what is going on in the game. I can make the game as exciting or as boring as the situation dictates. I try to use different analogies, stories, experiences, etc. to describe what is going on. If the running back carries the ball off right tackle and then down the right sideline and is tackled out of bounds, then that's what I call. I may describe it in a different way each time that certain action happens, but it is still a running back taking a handoff off tackle then going down the right sideline and being tackled out of bounds. As I sat there and read this, I likened it the football game. What if I started saying well he started to go left, but it looks like he changed his mind because there was one fellow over there on the defense that was particularly mean looking because he had snot running down his nose and didn't like running backs that wore number 32 on their jersey. And then the next play was no gain on a quarterback sneak. I can't say the quarterback was about to pass, but decided against it because the defenders were definitely in a mindset to intercept any passes that he may have thrown on that play. Or what about just changing things around to suit what I want to happen. Would that be fair to the mass of people out there listening and expecting me to give them an accurate version of what is really happening?

I know this is a weak analogy, but it is somewhat appropriate. If we are all in a chat session or talking at a bottle show or in a thread discussing different possibilities, or maybe it was this or that, then ok. But you when you start a thread in a manner that you do, in the name of research and documentation, then it needs to be just about documentation. Every time you throw statements like the one highlighted above around, then it cheapens and devalues all the other hard work that goes into it, and it cheapens the hard work that all the other researchers are doing. We all need to be careful that the research we do is never construed as being done to either increase the value of what we are researching or to increase the value (or relevance) to what we want the conclusion of our research to be. When the running back runs off right tackle, down the right sideline, then out of bounds, then it is my job to describe it in the best way I can factually. Anything more is not fair to the masses that depend on me to get the correct information to them.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

With all do respect, if certain members haven't figured out by now that my research methods typically involve throwing as much information as I again against the wall and then hoping some of it sticks that will help us appreciate a slightly deeper aspect to soda bottle collecting, then I guess they will never figure me out. Please don't think I am not aware of some of the crazy stuff I come up with from time to time because I am acutely aware of it and, in fact, do it intentionally at times just to add some spice to things. Plus, I would much rather zig-zag around on non-typical topics that interest me personally than I would by starting a thread that starts out with ...

I found this old Pepsi Cola bottle with a chip on the lip and think it's from the 1960s but I'm not sure and was hoping someone knew something about it and how much it might be worth? By the way, the paint is almost entirely gone from the bottle and I was wondering if this hurts the value?

~ * ~

Or would you rather I involve myself with a thread, no matter how crazy it might start out, that invites you to click on and take a close look at the two names at the top of the following 1940 census where you will discover two James Steelman's, both from Millville, New Jersey, both employed at a glass factory - one of which was a mould maker and one a draftsman? I'm not sure yet which of the two James Steelman's designed the 1940 Pepsi Cola bottle but I'm pretty sure one of them did.

http://xrl.us/bposq4

~ * ~

Discovering something about the man who designed the Pepsi Cola bottle might not be of interest to everyone, nor is it a major revelation, but I find it extremely interesting as it adds to my quest of trying to see the world through the eyes of a bottle designer and hopefully someday figuring what made them tick and, most of all, exactly what it was that influenced their design choices. So if you think this so called quest of mine is a bad thing, then that's your prerogative. But please don't deny me my own prerogatives which include off the wall topics related to soda bottle collecting. And if I jump to conclusions at times, so what, no big deal. In other words, don't take things so seriously - its just a soda bottle forum and not the end of the world. I seriously doubt anyone will be mislead or harmed by any of my meandering's and instead will hopefully find a gem or two among them they can tuck away for a rainy day when they have nothing better to do than read through forum threads like this and wonder what all the fuss is about.

Who would have thought that a little ol' basket-weave embossing on a little ol' soda bottle could possibly be of any interest?

Answer? I do!

Respectfully,

Bob

~ * ~

[ Patent Link ]

https://www.google.com/patents/USD120277?pg=PA2&dq=bottle+120,277&hl=en&sa=X&ei=U9YLUrCFEqfF2AWEu4CICA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=bottle%20120%2C277&f=false

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Here's another fun census site you can join for free.

http://www.findmypast.com/

When it opens, start by typing in ...

James S Steelman
Millville

... then just follow the prompts for joining and you will be able to see the original census record(s) - plus you'll be able to zoom in on it for easy reading. Which of the two James Steelman's do you think designed the 1940 Pepsi Cola bottle - the mould maker or the draftsman?

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

P.S. ~

The glass factory mould maker was 48 years old in 1940

The glass factory draftsman was 27 years old in 1940

Hmmm ... I wonder ... [8|]

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

I'll just throw this against the wall and see if it sticks ... (Providing my math is correct).

I'm thinking the two James Steelman's were father and son - both from Millville, New Jersey and both glass factory workers. The father (48 years old in 1940) being the mold maker - and the son (27 years old in 1940) being the draftsman. The older Steelman was born around 1892 and the younger around 1913.

The earliest James S. Steelman bottle patents I have found (several of them) are from 1934 - which is when the older Steeman was around 42 years old and the younger Steelman was around 21 years old. I suppose its possible that a 21 year old man could have been designing and patenting bottles at that age, but I think it more likely that it was the older man.

Most of the James S. Steelman bottle patents list him as an assignor for the Whitall Tatum glass company located in Millville, New Jersey which, in 1938, became the Armstrong Cork Corporation. James S. Steelman has patents as assignor for both companies.

If my observations are correct, then it means the designer of the 1940 Pepsi Cola "wave" bottle was very likely a mold maker working for the Armstrong Cork Corporation at the time. Of course, the 1940 patent list James S. Steelman as an assignor for the Pepsi Cola Company at the time, but this doesn't necessarily mean that an "assignor" is a full-time employee of a particular company.

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

P.S. ~

Please be reminded that Earl R. Dean was a mold shop foreman when he designed the Coca Cola prototype bottle in 1915 for the Root Glass Company. So I don't think it was all that uncommon for mold guys to also be bottle designers. Who better to know the intricacies of bottle design than a mold maker?

Bob

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB

I'm thinking the two James Steelman's were father and son - both from Millville, New Jersey and both glass factory workers. The father (48 years old in 1940) being the mold maker - and the son (27 years old in 1940) being the draftsman.

Bob

I'm currently attempting to put together a brief biography of James S. Steelman (The designer and patentee of the 1940 Pepsi Cola "wave" bottle) and found this reference to a James S. Steelman Sr. Although unconfirmed at the moment, I'm thinking this is a reference to the older mold maker and that he was the father of the younger draftsman. This is the only reference I have found so far using the designation of "Sr. / Senior."

James S. Steelman Sr. ~ Rotary Club President ~ Millville, New Jersey ~ 1944-1945

Scroll to the second page shown = Which is page 138

http://www.woodburynjrotary.org/IMupload/020%20Millville.pdf

Although hard to come by and very time consuming, I'm finding some other interesting stuff related to James S. Steelman, which I will post just as soon as I have it organized properly.

Bob

 

[jblaylock]

Digging a bit deeper into Pepsi history shows that Charles Guth purchased Pepsi in 1931, but was later absorbed by candy company Loft Inc. in 1941 to become the Pepsi Cola Company. The headquarters was based in Long Island, but the company operated in the New York/New Jersey area.

So it makes sense that the designer/mold maker would be in the New Jersey area.

 

[morbious_fod]

As with the scientific method, which is a much better analogy for the research that Soda is doing than a football game TD, you start out with a question, and then you research to find any "facts" which you can apply to that question. Eventually after you have observed, in this case researched every possibility, you can form a hypothesis. You take that hypothesis and test it looking for the flaws in your assumptions, possible connections or lack there of, and observations which led to that hypothesis thus testing it. Inevitably you will find that your assumptions, like the one you mentioned the misspelling of weave, were made in error, or aren't actually observable (provable) due to their being based on speculation. That being said any good researcher will tell you that you have to explore every possibility, because sometimes those assumptions pan out, but not always. Eventually you can move to the theory stage, but even then a fact may come along which turns that theory on its head. Even Gravity is still just a theory, facts are harder to come by.

 

[morbious_fod]

ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB

I'll just throw this against the wall and see if it sticks ... (Providing my math is correct).

I'm thinking the two James Steelman's were father and son - both from Millville, New Jersey and both glass factory workers. The father (48 years old in 1940) being the mold maker - and the son (27 years old in 1940) being the draftsman. The older Steelman was born around 1892 and the younger around 1913.

The earliest James S. Steelman bottle patents I have found (several of them) are from 1934 - which is when the older Steeman was around 42 years old and the younger Steelman was around 21 years old. I suppose its possible that a 21 year old man could have been designing and patenting bottles at that age, but I think it more likely that it was the older man.

Most of the James S. Steelman bottle patents list him as an assignor for the Whitall Tatum glass company located in Millville, New Jersey which, in 1938, became the Armstrong Cork Corporation. James S. Steelman has patents as assignor for both companies.

If my observations are correct, then it means the designer of the 1940 Pepsi Cola "wave" bottle was very likely a mold maker working for the Armstrong Cork Corporation at the time. Of course, the 1940 patent list James S. Steelman as an assignor for the Pepsi Cola Company at the time, but this doesn't necessarily mean that an "assignor" is a full-time employee of a particular company.

Bob

That is a huge assumption based on one census record (1940). Did you find them on earlier census records? It would appear that the 1920 census would shed more light on the familial relationship if there is one.