epackage
Well-Known Member
[ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB
Jim ~
Super! Well done! ... plus I know some of your secrets now! (Lol) []
Actually, what I really wanted to say is ...
Now there's an example of one of the "Experts" I was referring to!
]
RARITY vs DEMAND vs AGE vs CONDITION = VALUE
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]Interesting topic.
I have not considered price guides for any of my collections for about 10+ years. A senior collector in my opinion is one that knows the market and either knows what previous items have sold for or comparable. I have about 6000 recorded sales plus auction catalogs, etc. I have a solid sense of "value" of items.
In lower value items (upto 100's of dollars) I find wildly hard to predict. I have had cases where I know the previous example sold for $25 and I bid $250 and still lose. Why do the common as Dirt Canadian Blue SS Cokes sell from $9.99 upto about $120. These are small enough prices that people over spend easier.
As for condition, another case where you need to know the market. I happily spent $600 for a bottle with the base completely missing from the bottle; however it was 1 of only 3 surviving examples that I know of. I could see many people thinking it is worthless.
I personally don't believe that there is any formula based on Rarity, demand, age or condition that can ascertain value. Value is based on knowledge/experience and circumstance more than any other factors. So what do I recommend for "newbies", only spend money that you feel is comfortable to you. Don't spend money if you can not afford to loose it. By observing the market and making purchases one will learn what to spend on items of interest.
I reminds me that a month ago I was at a ComiCon and was looking though a vendors boxes when another customer was looking at an Amazing Fantasy 15 (First Spider-man) priced at $7500, then asked the seller what the grade was. I was appalled; because in my opinion if you are going to spend 7500 on something you should know about it and grade it yourself.
Catalogs are valuable, price guides are worthless. Some of the best books I have have from the 60's and 70's; they are great catalogs and don't generally need updating...
anyway some of my thoughts...
Chris
I have not considered price guides for any of my collections for about 10+ years. A senior collector in my opinion is one that knows the market and either knows what previous items have sold for or comparable. I have about 6000 recorded sales plus auction catalogs, etc. I have a solid sense of "value" of items.
In lower value items (upto 100's of dollars) I find wildly hard to predict. I have had cases where I know the previous example sold for $25 and I bid $250 and still lose. Why do the common as Dirt Canadian Blue SS Cokes sell from $9.99 upto about $120. These are small enough prices that people over spend easier.
As for condition, another case where you need to know the market. I happily spent $600 for a bottle with the base completely missing from the bottle; however it was 1 of only 3 surviving examples that I know of. I could see many people thinking it is worthless.
I personally don't believe that there is any formula based on Rarity, demand, age or condition that can ascertain value. Value is based on knowledge/experience and circumstance more than any other factors. So what do I recommend for "newbies", only spend money that you feel is comfortable to you. Don't spend money if you can not afford to loose it. By observing the market and making purchases one will learn what to spend on items of interest.
I reminds me that a month ago I was at a ComiCon and was looking though a vendors boxes when another customer was looking at an Amazing Fantasy 15 (First Spider-man) priced at $7500, then asked the seller what the grade was. I was appalled; because in my opinion if you are going to spend 7500 on something you should know about it and grade it yourself.
Catalogs are valuable, price guides are worthless. Some of the best books I have have from the 60's and 70's; they are great catalogs and don't generally need updating...
anyway some of my thoughts...
Chris
SODAPOPBOB
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fanboy ~
Thank you for the contribution. Very insightful and helpful.
In a nutshell, I think most of us will agree with the old addages ...
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
and ...
One man's treasure is another man's trash"
And yet, even with this said, why do we (myself included) place so much emphasis on value instead of on preference and pride of ownership? As an example of this, I have numerous San Diego bottles that I enjoy the labels on better than others, but because the favored labels aren't necessarily as valuable, I tend to covet the less liked labels simply because they are more valuable. In other words, why am I sometimes willing to pay more for less liked bottles than I will for well liked bottles? Does this make sense or is it confusing and I'm crazy for asking? The only answer I can come up with is that I am more interested in value than anything else. Which brings us right back to square one, which is ... what makes one bottle more valuable than another?
Note: If your answer is that you think I'm crazy, I can handle you telling me that! (Lol) []
Bob
Thank you for the contribution. Very insightful and helpful.
In a nutshell, I think most of us will agree with the old addages ...
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
and ...
One man's treasure is another man's trash"
And yet, even with this said, why do we (myself included) place so much emphasis on value instead of on preference and pride of ownership? As an example of this, I have numerous San Diego bottles that I enjoy the labels on better than others, but because the favored labels aren't necessarily as valuable, I tend to covet the less liked labels simply because they are more valuable. In other words, why am I sometimes willing to pay more for less liked bottles than I will for well liked bottles? Does this make sense or is it confusing and I'm crazy for asking? The only answer I can come up with is that I am more interested in value than anything else. Which brings us right back to square one, which is ... what makes one bottle more valuable than another?
Note: If your answer is that you think I'm crazy, I can handle you telling me that! (Lol) [
] Bob
SODAPOPBOB
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PS ~
In other words, is value based more on preference or more on the other factors mentioned?
In other words, is value based more on preference or more on the other factors mentioned?
epackage
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I base 99% of what I buy, outside of Paterson bottles, on their resale value. For me there is zero collectible value to any acl not from my area, which I assume holds true for the majority of "local" collectors like myself...
blobbottlebob
Well-Known Member
Great post Sodapop. Your ana-lysis applies equally to almost every category of bottles, not just acls. I think it is helpful to view value in the terms that you have listed (especially for someone who is new to collecting and can't understand where and how these crazy values come from). For example, one hutch might sell for $5 bucks. Another similarly looking bottle (with worse wear even) might go upwards of $200 or more because of other factors including rarity and demand.
While I think the factors you list are important in determining rarity, I also think that they are particularly hard to quantify into anything remotely resembling a formula. So, if for example, you finid a bottle you know little about, you still need to inquire - post pictures - as you said - check ebay closed auctions - find collectors who do know, etc . . .
While I think the factors you list are important in determining rarity, I also think that they are particularly hard to quantify into anything remotely resembling a formula. So, if for example, you finid a bottle you know little about, you still need to inquire - post pictures - as you said - check ebay closed auctions - find collectors who do know, etc . . .
blobbottlebob
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I think this is great advice from Fanboy.
But I also agree with you Sodapop that demand is probably the single biggest factor in what something will sell for. For example, I have found rare milk bottles that have never been seen. Because the demand is so specific to the tiny market where they come from, and there are not many people seeking them, they often sell for a tiny fraction of what they would if they were from an area where multiple collectors compete for the best available bottles.
SODAPOPBOB
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"Ask The Experts"
Let's switch gears for the moment from somewhat regional brands to a more nationally recognized brand. Up for your expertise evaluations is the following bottle I have a lead on but slightly undecided as to what it might be worth and what I should pay.
To help protect my interest in this bottle, I have decided not to disclose either the bottler and/or it's city/state of origin. I can, however, tell you it comes from an extremely small town whose population was about 1,200 in 1940 with a current population of about 800.
It has already been confirmed as a 1939 bottle, which is the earliest know for this brand. On a scale of 1 to 10 it is considered about a 8.0. The glass itself is in near mint condition as is the back label. The only so called flaw it has is on the front label which has a stain or blemish that is permanent and cannot be cleaned or removed.
I realize the information provided is somewhat limited, but irregardless of that, how much would you value a ...
Scarce to Rare 1939 Squirt bottle from an extremely small town in rural America in a grade of 8.0 with a blemished front label?
Here's the front label and the only picture I have to share ... please evaluate it based on coast to coast interest an not local interest.
Thanks
Bob
Let's switch gears for the moment from somewhat regional brands to a more nationally recognized brand. Up for your expertise evaluations is the following bottle I have a lead on but slightly undecided as to what it might be worth and what I should pay.
To help protect my interest in this bottle, I have decided not to disclose either the bottler and/or it's city/state of origin. I can, however, tell you it comes from an extremely small town whose population was about 1,200 in 1940 with a current population of about 800.
It has already been confirmed as a 1939 bottle, which is the earliest know for this brand. On a scale of 1 to 10 it is considered about a 8.0. The glass itself is in near mint condition as is the back label. The only so called flaw it has is on the front label which has a stain or blemish that is permanent and cannot be cleaned or removed.
I realize the information provided is somewhat limited, but irregardless of that, how much would you value a ...
Scarce to Rare 1939 Squirt bottle from an extremely small town in rural America in a grade of 8.0 with a blemished front label?
Here's the front label and the only picture I have to share ... please evaluate it based on coast to coast interest an not local interest.
Thanks
Bob
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blobbottlebob
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One other odd point. It's funny how total novices will find a bottle - say by unearthing one in the spring in their garden -and then they often think that they have something extremely valuable. The holy grail, if you will, of ketchup bottles. I always try to let these people down easily because you (well, I at least) hate to discourage someone who might join the hobby.
For example, I might say, "It's really neat that you found that in your own yard. It might be fun to look back in the future at that as the first bottle you ever found."
For example, I might say, "It's really neat that you found that in your own yard. It might be fun to look back in the future at that as the first bottle you ever found."
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