Reworked molds and name changes on jars.

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Wildcat wrangler

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I am trying to get more info on the practice of reworking old molds when companies were purchased by the Ball company. I have heard “Rall” was bought out and name changed. I own a half gallon one that’s so ruff- where you can read Drey under Ball, with big scrape marks and orange peel glass above. Does anyone have more info on other name do-overs, and maybe point me to more info? Was this a common practice with other companies? Did it extend to regular bottles?
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CanadianBottles

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I don't have any information on the practice per se, but I do know of another example. The Coronet fruit jar from British Columbia is a Crown jar mold with the name changed and half of the crown logo erased.

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It was done for other types of bottles as well, but I'm not sure what sort of circumstances would lead to it being done. It's not something that I come across that frequently.
 

nhpharm

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Molds were expensive so it was common practice to modify a mold when (1) the original mold had an error like a misspelling, backwards letter, etc. (2) when the company was acquired by another company (like the Ball/Drey situation), (3) when a partner left or was added to a company, (4) when government regulations forced rewording (such as changing cure to remedy), or (5) when a company wanted to change their dated bottle to another year (typically seen on blob beers).
 
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Nickolas_

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I am trying to get more info on the practice of reworking old molds when companies were purchased by the Ball company. I have heard “Rall” was bought out and name changed. I own a half gallon one that’s so ruff- where you can read Drey under Ball, with big scrape marks and orange peel glass above. Does anyone have more info on other name do-overs, and maybe point me to more info? Was this a common practice with other companies? Did it extend to regular bottles? View attachment 226240View attachment 226241View attachment 226242View attachment 226243View attachment 226244
Ball was very well known to use their moulds and alter them until they plum wore out. You will find many altered mould jars that Ball reworked from the purchase of other glass companies. Ball purchased quite a few other glass companies and altered their moulds to have their name on them. Some are quite crude and others are done very well.
Port glass works, Schram or Drey, Root are a few that you will run across. Ive owned a lot of Ball jars over the years ivebeen collecting them for 40 years easily. I sold off a lot of my better jars in 08-10 when i lost my job and went out on disability. I still have quite a few jars though and gifted jars from other collectors no longer with us. Ball jars are fun to collect for the many variants one may find...

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Dogo

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There are hundreds of variations in Ball embossing due to the huge number of jars produced by numerous plants. If you are serious about jars The Red Book of Fruit Jars is your Bible.
 

Wildcat wrangler

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Thank you! I really love the history and the stories with their twists and turns- really, you would be hard pressed to make up better stories than some of these. I didn’t realize just how many companies, over the years, have similar really fascinating stories about their companies. Horlicks come to mind...

But what do you tell people when your sitting there with a jar all scraped up and poorly done, and they are running this on you:

“I don't see how this is possible for Drey to be peened out under Ball (3L). The Ball 3L without Mason jars were produced 1896-1910. Ball 3L (with Mason) were made 1900-1910. Ball acquired Schram (the maker of Drey) in 1925. The Ball 3L molds belonged to Ball and never Schram.”

And:

“this is not a reworked drey mold ball discontinued 3L script in 1910 drey weren't produced til about 1915 an ball didn't purchase the company til 1925”

Here’s what I said:

Drey was made by Schram Automatic Sealer Company, founded in 1904.
Production of Drey jars started in 1917. Drey was bought by Ball in 1925. Ball continued to make them for 13 years. While every other jar company marked prices way down during the Great Depression, Ball kept their prices high to give their line a reputation for quality. They sold the Drey stuff as their discount line so they could have it both ways. This puts the production of Drey jars between 1917 and 1938. If you look closely you can see the words "EVER SEAL" under the word "Drey". Since the words are not centered I'm taking this to mean this jar was made by Schram instead of by Ball. And they did the triple loop L on old stock that was there. Things were tight- the depression was on, so in the interest of saving some bux, the molds were retooled.
Kat

So people really take their idea of what the history was, personally, and are very closed minded to any variation from that. Meanwhile I am sitting here with this freaky jar... I don’t know if they think I jacked up this jar, myself, or what! Lol! Does anyone have a thought as to what happened on the finish of my jar? Just a inexperienced mold reworked, learning? The scrape marks are really strange, and then the orange peel glass above that...
 

jarsnstuff

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Unfortunately, I can't see what you describe by your photos. However, what I can see is that this jar looks like the top portion has been reworked. Here's what I think - Maybe the top was changed from an Improved style closure to a regular mason jar. Then, the word "Improved" was removed from the mold. Are you sure you see "ever seal" and not "Improved"? If so, I'd sure like to see the jar in person before I'd say it was a reworked Drey Ever Seal - which incidentally was a lightning seal jar. The Ball 3-L mason jars are well known to have a lot of variations in the embossing, as well as flaws & crudity in the glass.
 

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Wildcat wrangler

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Unfortunately, I can't see what you describe by your photos. However, what I can see is that this jar looks like the top portion has been reworked. Here's what I think - Maybe the top was changed from an Improved style closure to a regular mason jar. Then, the word "Improved" was removed from the mold. Are you sure you see "ever seal" and not "Improved"? If so, I'd sure like to see the jar in person before I'd say it was a reworked Drey Ever Seal - which incidentally was a lightning seal jar. The Ball 3-L mason jars are well known to have a lot of variations in the embossing, as well as flaws & crudity in the glass.

That’s another weird thing is there is no perfect or improved or ever seal. Nothing. It’s like oops- messed that up…. Let’s just start on a new one! I wish you could see it in person, because it’s pretty visible in the right light, and looks like someone scraped it with a broom, while molten. Really ruff.


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ROBBYBOBBY64

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Thank you! I really love the history and the stories with their twists and turns- really, you would be hard pressed to make up better stories than some of these. I didn’t realize just how many companies, over the years, have similar really fascinating stories about their companies. Horlicks come to mind...

But what do you tell people when your sitting there with a jar all scraped up and poorly done, and they are running this on you:

“I don't see how this is possible for Drey to be peened out under Ball (3L). The Ball 3L without Mason jars were produced 1896-1910. Ball 3L (with Mason) were made 1900-1910. Ball acquired Schram (the maker of Drey) in 1925. The Ball 3L molds belonged to Ball and never Schram.”

And:

“this is not a reworked drey mold ball discontinued 3L script in 1910 drey weren't produced til about 1915 an ball didn't purchase the company til 1925”

Here’s what I said:

Drey was made by Schram Automatic Sealer Company, founded in 1904.
Production of Drey jars started in 1917. Drey was bought by Ball in 1925. Ball continued to make them for 13 years. While every other jar company marked prices way down during the Great Depression, Ball kept their prices high to give their line a reputation for quality. They sold the Drey stuff as their discount line so they could have it both ways. This puts the production of Drey jars between 1917 and 1938. If you look closely you can see the words "EVER SEAL" under the word "Drey". Since the words are not centered I'm taking this to mean this jar was made by Schram instead of by Ball. And they did the triple loop L on old stock that was there. Things were tight- the depression was on, so in the interest of saving some bux, the molds were retooled.
Kat

So people really take their idea of what the history was, personally, and are very closed minded to any variation from that. Meanwhile I am sitting here with this freaky jar... I don’t know if they think I jacked up this jar, myself, or what! Lol! Does anyone have a thought as to what happened on the finish of my jar? Just a inexperienced mold reworked, learning? The scrape marks are really strange, and then the orange peel glass above that...
I've seen altered Drey to Ball jars before peened out on the back.
ROBBYBOBBY64.
 

jarsnstuff

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Wildcat, now I'm really confused.

In your post of June 14 you say: "If you look closely you can see the words "EVER SEAL" under the word "Drey". Since the words are not centered I'm taking this to mean this jar was made by Schram instead of by Ball. "
In your post this morning you say: " That’s another weird thing is there is no perfect or improved or ever seal. Nothing. It’s like oops- messed that up…. "

So which is it? Can you see peened out/erased wording or can't you? If you can't, please tell us again what makes you think this was originally a Drey jar? Ball bought out several fruit jar makers and reworked their molds. (I have several examples if you'd like to see any of them) If your only reference is the odd "scraped" effect, that could be a result of many other factors, anything from the mold cutter being sloppy, or trying to correct an error, or being hungover to simply a flaw in the mold.
 

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