Suffolk bitters repro

[amblypygi]

Hi,

Can anyone point me to the reference that says the "America's suffolk bitters life preserver" bottles were made in Italy in the 60s? I know I've read that in a reliable source, but I can't for the life of me remember where, and the seller of this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6254872048

doesn't believe me.

Any ideas appreciated: some unfortunate bidders are about to get ripped off on that one!

Sean

 

[amblypygi]

D'oh! Well, I figured out what I was doing wrong on the search page, so I at least have the forum discussion on this topic to send the guy. I still swear I saw it in print somewhere though [:-]

Apologies for posting this in the wrong place too, I forgot there was a repro forum.

S

 

[walkingstick]

http://www.antiquebottles.com/repro/

 

[amblypygi]

ORIGINAL: walkingstick

http://www.antiquebottles.com/repro/

Heh, yup! In fact I believe O'Dell's book is where I had originally seen this in print.

The guy's pissed at me now, but oh well. Here's a copy of part of our conversation, am I being an asshole??:

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx wrote:

> you did everything to say i was a thief, i know when i purchased the
> item, do you?i hope you treat everyone like this, i am honest and tell
> onlt what i know, i have intergrity and YOU emailed my clients rather
> than let me do so.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I did what I felt I needed to do. I
didn't email the bidders until after after I emailed you and the auction
remained up. To me that meant that you had bad intentions. As soon as you
saw that I was right you should have canceled the auction and relisted it
in the proper category. If you don't believe that I'm right, then I don't
know what to tell you except to do a google search on "AMERICA'S Suffolk
Bitters Life Preserver". A clear explanation of what I'm telling you (by a
highly respected expert on bottles) is the first thing on the list.

I'm sorry if you think I mistreated you, but I think I gave you a chance;
this auction shouldn't have been allowed to continue to the end. The final
bid was ten times the value of the bottle. As a bottle collector, I don't
want to see the hobby ruined by things like this. Again, I really don't
think you were intentionally trying to rip people off, or that you were
lying; what you said about when it was purchased fits perfectly with its
age: it was made in the 1960s along with tens of thousands of others.

Finally, even if I didn't email the bidders someone else probably would
have. One of the good things about ebay is that the community works to
protect against fraud, either accidental (as in your case) or intentional
(as in WAY too many other cases).

Again I'm sorry you don't like how I handled this, in hindsight I guess I
should have been more clear about the fact that I thought the auction
should be canceled. I guess I just thought that was the obvious
conclusion.

Sean

 

[walkingstick]

Next time you see one of those Suffolk Bitters, Frank's or even the Lancaster Bitters or any other of the repro bottles, use ebays system to report it...

step 1 Listing policy violation
step 2 misleading title
step 3 intentionally misleading or deceptive title
then click continue
On the next page click misleading title
next page click contact customer service
next page enter the item # and send it off.

Let ebay do the figuring out if it is intentional or not.

 

[walkingstick]

I bet if e-bay got several dozen messages on the same item, they would pay attention and do something

 

[walkingstick]

Here is the Frank's.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Medicine-Bottle-Franks_W0QQitemZ6255710497QQcategoryZ895QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If they had not mentioned the embossed "Wheaton NJ" on this bottle I woulda been all over it. It is still a shame that it is listed in the pre-1900 meds/cures.

 

[GuntherHess]

Ebay apparently has thier hands full policing fake Rolex watches and bootleg Microsoft software. They are going to be more concerned about fakes THEY are going to get sued.
In my opinion the best way to fight fakes is to educate people as well as possible. If people can do a quick google search and see that the items are fakes then it would be much harder for this stuff to be sold. I am working on adding a section to my web site for known fakes and reproductions. If other people do this too it will make searches go better.
If buyers arent willing to make a minimal effort to learn about what they are bidding on then I cant have too much pity on them when they make a foolish purchase.

 

[BRIAN S.]

I think it isn't always that a seller is trying to be dishonest or trying to rip someone off. I think a lot of them are just lacking the knowlege about what they are listing. They look it up in a book or have a novice collector appraise it for them . And they see the $$$ signs in there eyes , and refuse to listen to the seasoned collector about it being a repro .
I had a visitor ( a year or so ago) to this forum that had a E.G. BOOZ that was a repro ... he asked for an opinion on whether it was the Real McCoy or not . He sent me several pics and I determined it was a repro , and I sent him numerous pics of the Real McCoy so he could see how it was determined that his was a repro. He argued with me and said his was the real thing in the rare color of Yellow. I just finally gave up trying to convince him and he went on his way. But he saw $$$$ signs and didn't want to believe the fact that he had a repro and he wasn't going to make the $$$$ he thought he was. I'd say much like the seller you are refering to with the piggy !
Some sellers are dishonest and will try to rip off unsuspecting buyers..... but most are just lacking knowlege of their item I believe.

 

[texasdigger]

Ebay is one of the best things that has ever happened to all forms of collecting, but no matter how much time and effort is spent there will always be mistaken indentification and blatant rip-offs. In my oppinion it is the buyers responsibilty to know what he or she is bidding on. It still realy ticks me off though when I see intentional misleading on the sellers part. If you are selling a repro list it as a repro!! It is hard for me to belive that someone "mistakes" a repro for the real thing when they have the item in there posession. Every repro bottle I have ever seen only looks like the real thing, but the colors, weight, crudity and seams are always immediate dead give aways. Not to mention the made in Taiwan or Wheaton embossing. My favorite are the "super rare" pontiled flask reproductions. If you can't look at one of those next to a real one even through pictures alone and tell the real on from the fake you need a new hobby. People misleading others for their own gain is realy low, and if they are caught doing so I wish they could be banned from selling on ebay. I will report everyone of the misleading auctions that I see, but will never get directly involved with the seller. Let Ebay sort that out it is one of the reasons we pay them to use their site. I am sorry that guy called you an asshole you where just trying to save some people the money and embarassment of being ripped-off. He just had $$$ signs on the brain. No matter what you said or how much info. you had in his mind he was selling a Suffolk Pig Bitters and he was going to make some cash. To all you guys that try to help educate novices keep fighting the good fight. What you are doing is helping your own karma which in trade will help you to find that 16X16X30 privy filled to the brim with "REAL" pontiled bitter cures all of which are unlisted.

have a good weekend guys and gals,
Brad